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In the shadow of Made in Japan
Here’s a documentary on the making of Who Do We Think We Are. It is a fan-made affair, but it is fairly well researched and lovingly put together. Cherry on top: it was done by a Led Zeppelin fan.
Thanks to Uwe Hornung for bringing this to your attention.
Unauthorized copying, while sometimes necessary, is never as good as the real thing
That’s a bingo!
https://media3.giphy.com/media/39O0RbmOmvWko/giphy.gif
I always do intelligence work behind enemy lines.
January 23rd, 2024 at 22:20Thanks to Uwe Hornung indeed, who else but the penultimate Led Zeppelin aficionado. Not too bad an effort Uwe, all things considered, keep it up ole son. Cheers.
January 23rd, 2024 at 22:54Now that I have actually watched it & I am not being silly regarding my first comment (I can’t resist sometimes, especially in regards to Uwe & Led Zep). I liked the presentation of this doco. I have commented on my high rating of WDWTWA many times so I will not repeat myself & bore everyone to tears. But one thing I don’t think I have ever stated before is that I think Ian Gillan’s vocal on this album is probably the best I have ever heard in DP or any other band he has been associated with (excepting his Concerto ’69 voice). There is something smoother, more sublime & esoteric about his delivery on this album. Wonderful that is & I have always been sort of mesmerised by that. I don’t agree with the presenters preference for Painted Horse over Our Lady, we all have our wants & desires. Our Lady is one of the reasons I made my comments re Gillan’s wonderful vocal delivery. Thanks for posting this documentary & of course to Uwe for highlighting it, even if it is full of Dread Zeppelin, he he he. Cheers.
January 23rd, 2024 at 23:50Awesome !
Great work, & a much needed work, since everything ever made about this time-of-the-band seems to jump from MiJ straight into Burn with Mk-III, overlooking this masterpiece & swan-song of Mk-II DP in the 1970’s. I’m downloading as I type, & will watch later.
Peace !
January 24th, 2024 at 00:05Found this decent enough version of Mary Long live from Lyon – France. It starts around the 25 minute mark. Criminal that they didn’t play any other songs from that album. Blackmore again no doubt. Rory Gallagher as a support. Now that is a incredible doubly whammy. Cheers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8kznpnIx6U&t=1625s
January 24th, 2024 at 05:45@5
January 24th, 2024 at 11:27During the
Rapture of the Deep Tour, they played Mary Long. I loved it!!
This so interesting! Always one of my favorite Purple LP’s…very well done!
January 24th, 2024 at 12:15Some of the low crooning Gillan does on the live version of “Mary Long” sounds a lot like Rod Evans!
January 24th, 2024 at 13:00Woman From Tokyo was my gateway to Deep Purple back in ’73. I had already heard SOTW a couple of times, and yes it was good, but WFT was the riff that really grabbed me. I remember spending hours poring over the various news clippings inside the gatefold cover of WDWTWA while listening to the LP over and over, for days and weeks. Though it seems to have slipped through the cracks and/or is seen as a subpar release compared to its predecessor and successor albums; for me it’s still a very significant record in the overall Purple canon.
January 24th, 2024 at 14:18Not necessarily my favorite Purple album. I like Woman from Tokyo, Mary Long, Rat Bat Blue (with an ingenious middle section by Jon Lord with borrowings from J.S. Bach) and Place in Line.
January 24th, 2024 at 14:54Well done documentation
“who else but the penultimate Led Zeppelin aficionado …”
I’m trying my hardest to recollect whether a meaner insult has ever been unleashed against me before!
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/72/70/1d/72701de774e0738ded143e48405e5a1b.gif
January 24th, 2024 at 15:20I like the presenter’s introspective, and appreciation for the music. I’ve listened to this album a hundred times, but I’m about to do as he suggests – listen to the remastered album, LOUD.
January 24th, 2024 at 16:43As I think I said once upon a time..WDWTWA is a underrated album by the band members for one reason or another..not by the fans. Nowdays “In Rock” is too heavy and hard for me…Im getting old..But WDWTWA is as #3 says a smooth sublime album.. not too hard but with nice riffs and melodies and yes.. Gillans voice is great!!
January 24th, 2024 at 16:57In the days I thought..Why listen to Glenn boring Hughes and an ok DC when I can listen to Gillans sublime and powerfull voice.. I havent changed my mind after all these years. As the man said; Who did Mk3 andMk4 think they were?
lets hope theres more material out there from late 1972 – to june 1973.
Speaking of the band that shall not be named here: I was really struck by the juxtaposition in the above vid of the number of gigs they played in comparison to DP Mk II. I had of course known that Peter Grant had LZ concentrate on the US touring circuit (successfully so) to the exclusion of almost all other markets, but I had assumed that their number of North American gigs was about the same as DP’s gigs worldwide – not so at all. Messrs Bonham, Jones, Page & Plant lived a leisurely life compared to our heroes here!
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/11/a1/47/11a147af642ad12d2529a8217bc7e727.jpg
That does lent some credibility to the old DP complaint that Mk II had been worked to death even by early 70ies standards.
January 24th, 2024 at 17:05Excellent! I agree with MacGregor about Gillan’s vocals. Our Lady is one of my favorite DP songs. I wish they had played Place in Line live.
January 24th, 2024 at 20:57Yo,
That was a well made film, with not too-much bias on opinion from anyone, but from the creator only. Funny that he found countless “classic albums” made available from his Uncle’s collection, that gave excellent representative works to compare “sounds of the time” with, & someone to discuss these events with. I’m lucky to have a couple of people in my life that offered similar circumstances, in that the record-collections were not only good, but comprehensive too…And I’m sure that he was not the only one to get a copy of MiJ recorded onto a blank Cassette lol ! Lucky for him, the addition of “Women from Tokyo” was there, & that its appeal led him on the road to discover one of Mk-II’s finest early efforts, and often overlooked recordings.
WDWTWA is a rock-steady album from start to finish, a crowning moment that was unlucky in that Machine Head & MiJ were celebrated way-too-soon…There was far better music to come, but the masses overlooked this defining, equally balanced band recording…Until now it seems, where finally, people have their ears open, & are warming nicely to the records Mk-II enchantment. Tragic that it’s taken over 50-years !
Peace !
January 24th, 2024 at 22:49Talking of Place in Line & this has probably been discussed here before but I cannot recall. Who sings the verse is that Glover perhaps or Gillan lowering the ‘tone’ somewhat? Is is a classic as Leslie @ 15 says. Cheers.
January 25th, 2024 at 09:37Yes DP could have done with a more astute manager, as Peter Grant was & look how he rips into these bootleggers or supposed security back stage in 1973. Grant looked after his bands welfare & also played a large part in getting artists more income from unscrupulous promotors & venues in the USA. He was NOT to be messed with apparently. Blackmore wouldn’t have stood a chance if Grant was the DP manager, ha ha ha. Cheers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF3T8WcIdaA
January 25th, 2024 at 10:42@17: I’m certain it’s Gillan throughout. His range was impressive back in the day. The sad thing about the Blackmore-Gillan feud is that they were both right. Gillan was correct that Blackmore wasn’t a team player and from reunion on didn’t allow others to contribute, and Blackmore was right that Gillan didn’t take care of his voice. Had Mark 2 stayed together, had Blackmore allowed Glover and Lord to contribute, and had Gillan laid off the booze and smokes, they could’ve been bigger than LZ. WDWTWA is underrated. The band didn’t care for it, but it’s my second favorite Mark 2 studio LP, after Machine Head. Cheers.
January 25th, 2024 at 14:54@ 3 Indeed Gillan sounds his best ever here, in the studio anyway. Always loved this album.
January 25th, 2024 at 15:35Herr MacGregor, that “Frank Zappa voice” in PIL is Ian Gillan, Roger couldn’t reach that deep.
January 25th, 2024 at 17:38To me, WDWTWA is simply 70ies Mk II’s most mature, weathered work, full stop. In Rock was angry young men making a racket for a new age, Fireball saw them spreading their wings, Machine Head had them earnestly and very focusedy collaborating for a record that established them and WDWTWA saw them finally as slightly saturated superstars working their craft, the album is even a little decadent and indulgent. But that is exactly the type of records I like, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and Physical Graffiti are that way too.
And PIL has some of the best bluesy playing by both Ritchie and Jon ever. Super Trooper, Our Lady, Woman From Tokyo and Smooth Dancer are some of the most exquisitely crafted heavy pop Purple ever committed to tape.
January 25th, 2024 at 21:35@17 : Puzzled I am. Never thought for half a second someone else than Ian “Magic” Gillan could be singing on Place In Line. Really?
January 26th, 2024 at 03:23I believe he’s just lowering the tone doing his Elvis Presley thing. Cheers.
Our Lady reminds me the sound of The Beatles.
January 26th, 2024 at 08:54Right, Andre, it’s very Fab Four, almost a (respectful) Beatles spoof. I love(d) that about it.
January 26th, 2024 at 10:22@24 + 25: On Machine Head, Never Before was “the Beatles song”. With “backing vocals” (IG overdubbing himself, in fact), like Our Lady.
January 26th, 2024 at 16:42Nice doc., and don’t forget to (re)visit First Day Jam from the remastered CD. This is the core of the band giving it a nice shot and stretching out to 11 min. Would have been interesting to hear live as an interpolation. RG apparently got lost in the traffic around Fr.furt and missed the planned recording and we were lucky to get this piece of work.
January 26th, 2024 at 17:15Yup, JC, Never Before always sounded Liverpudlian to me too. But as its flop as a single proved, that wasn’t what the public wanted from Purple. I actually thought it was a great single choice so I didn’t know any better than Purple.
January 26th, 2024 at 19:05@ 23- well put it this way, I certainly didn’t think it could be any other member of DP. Glover does sing a little himself & as we know he did ‘fill in’ on that gig where Gillan went down with hepatitis. So I could imagine ole Rog having a little cameo. This is from Glover replying to a question a few years ago………………
January 26th, 2024 at 20:57Roger Glover: “I did indeed ‘front’ the band for one night in the early 70s, 1972 I believe. It was in the Chicago Amphitheatre when Ian Gillan became sick. It was too late to cancel the show so after offering people their money back, the four of us went on and did the best we could. We did many instrumentals that night. I’m no rock singer – I have a baritone voice, nothing as high or as powerful as Ian’s – so I just mumbled along as best I could, mainly to give the rest of the band cues as to the changes in the songs. I have no recollection of what songs we attempted. We were a heavily bootlegged band at the time and so I’m thankfully spared the fact that no bootleg exists from that evening”.
Cheers.
Here is the other answer from Glover to a fans two questions, a separate question it was & Gregster will enjoy the first bit. RG: “The two points have nothing to do with each other. We have toured several times with Mountain over the years and I’m sure Leslie West got up to play Smoke with us, maybe more than once, but I can’t give you dates.
January 26th, 2024 at 21:06However, the date of someone standing in for Ritchie when he was sick is way before that. It was in 1971, Ritchie had been hospitalized and we had just started our first US tour as headliners. The album out at that time was Fireball. Al Kooper declined the offer but Randy California, from Spirit, was the guy who played with us. It was in Quebec I think, and although he was great, we felt that to continue without Ritchie didn’t seem right, so we abandoned that tour”. Cheers.
@25
January 26th, 2024 at 22:44It is a pleasure to share the same mind and sensation
👍
Thanks for putting this together. It’s an interesting exploration. I love Jon’s playing on this album. I liked it so much that I made this:
January 27th, 2024 at 00:36https://youtu.be/wQPN7MJBLHI?si=h7F2iX_8-AA2xgWh
@30. That incessant touring must have messed with Roger’s memory. If memory serves, they played “When a Blind Man Cries” on the night Randy California subbed for RB. That means it likely wasn’t during a Fireball tour in 1971, because that song was written and recorded during the Machine Head sessions in December of that year. I believe it was the only time WABMC was performed on stage before Steve Morse took over as lead banjoist. Best live performance I’ve heard was from Rotterdam in 2000. RB apparently didn’t like it so it was included on LP when Machine Head was released in 1972. If that was indeed the case, they should have overruled him. Coulda, shoulda been a huge hit. One of my favorite Purple tracks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBE6oFEiGEk
January 27th, 2024 at 02:44The Quebec show was bootlegged, here you are, Randy plays slide a lot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j44Y1vpUFrU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZfepmbvCW4
Interestingly, Randy sometimes sounds like a cross between Ritchie and Tommy Bolin. Jon Lord takes a lot more solos than with Ritchie.
January 27th, 2024 at 03:47Those two Glover responses are from this site & initially from an official Purple 2013 posting by the look of it. Nothing to do with what I originally was searching for which was, is there any Roger Glover singing with DP other than that one off early 70’s concert. Anyway I have been listening to some of his solo material which I have never heard before & those ‘two verses’ of vocal on Place in Line as people have stated & which I didn’t doubt at all, is very different to Glover’s voice indeed. Regarding the Randy California gig & yes we can forgive Roger for a memory lapse here & there from such a long time ago. At least he didn’t get pirated as the California concert was, which is a good thing on both counts. California’s playing is interesting, he was a very good musician. Rather good for a one off with very little time to get it down. Thanks for the links to the California playing concert. Cheers.
facebook.com/earmusicofficial/posts/roger-glover-has-just-replied-to-a-fan-question-on-deep-purpledo-you-have-a-curi/497148677012258/
January 27th, 2024 at 11:58@32
January 27th, 2024 at 14:10Great Job Jon John👍
Then there’s that story of Christopher Cross (yes that one who did “Sailing” and other assorted Yacht-Rock pop ditties in the early 1980’s) who himself claimed that he filled in for Ritchie Blackmore one night, back in time. Jon Lord when asked about same had no recollection of such a gig. https://www.rhino.com/article/concert-flashback-when-christopher-cross-rocked-with-deep-purple
January 27th, 2024 at 17:39@ 37- DeeperPurps, Rick Beato does a good analysis on Christopher Cross as a guitar player in his own solo on Ride Like the Wind. Really low in the mix, ridiculously low as Rick highlights & a damn stomping good raunchy solo it is. Yacht rock, that expression I have never heard before & Rick is also talking about that here. I don’t doubt that he did fill in for DP, in interviews he seems like a down to earth genuine guy so yes, why not. Jon Lord’s memory wouldn’t be expected to remember that would he? Cross was in town in Texas way back then with Stevie Ray Vaughan, Eric Johnson & Bill Gibbons & knew them all well. Eric Johnson would have only been about 15 or 16 when he supposedly supported Purple in that band Mariani. Cross’s songs are different to what he probably would have liked in many ways as he says & he would have liked to have been involved in more rock music than ‘smooth’ ballads etc by the sound of it. He went with the flow I guess. Some good songs here & there & he has enjoyed a successful career indeed. Cheers.
January 28th, 2024 at 05:45https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8VwP5iEr1g
@30…
Yes indeed, Leslie West is surely one-of-the-greats, along with both of his bands ( Mountain & WBL )…In fact, his efforts & career are typical of many that rose & fell for no valid reasons, & yet delivered timeless master-piece works throughout…I still listen to at least one WBL record / bootleg everyday, such is the quality of combined improvisation performances from all concerned, & yet the mostly same set-list played through…
If anyone has not encountered or discovered Mountain &/or West Bruce & Laing, you should check-these guys out…Talk about a busy schedule & multiple tours of Europe & the US-of-A in the early 1970’s…Many say that they were “Cream II”, but that’s only because of Felix Pappalardi’s production contributions to Creams 3 out of 4 albums. Mountains music lay somewhere in-between LZ & DP to my ears, with better & more controversial-at-times lyrics, especially in the 1970’s era. West Bruce & Laing produced timeless rock & blues, that still sounds fresh & kicks major-ass to this day. Play at good volume for best results. Top quality music here folks, & you can grab a 5-CD boxed set of early Mountain for around $20:00…Priceless !!!
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.Gas6KopJj3zzY_cQ4kjA_gAAAA%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=70771cd74cfb1628393374353897b46632334cd2799a5d442faed67a97a6d802&ipo=images
DP invited Leslie & Mountain to perform with them for the UK stint of the 1985 reunion-tour at Knebworth from memory, with awesome success.
Peace !
January 28th, 2024 at 06:07Was on the bill with Purple 2005.
January 28th, 2024 at 14:57Very entertaining-
Great show!
@ And Leslie West plays the lead guitar on Hang Me Out To Dry on IG’s Toolbox album.
January 28th, 2024 at 20:48Toolbox is fantastic, it is a pity that it results very underrated. Great sound and vocal.
January 29th, 2024 at 18:09Great Big Ian ♡
@ 22
I know Johnny Rotten was an hypocrite.
He was bashing real musicians while he loved Foreigner and Kate Bush
January 29th, 2024 at 23:58They had it easy, these punkmorons. The older(sic)generations that were shoved aside by masses with a brain resembling scrambled eggs .
I wasnt aware of his PIL working with Deep Purple members.
That scream in Place in Line shreds my spine. Every time.
January 30th, 2024 at 02:41“I wasnt aware of his PIL working with Deep Purple members.”
I knew when I wrote it that someone would pick it up the wrong way, but I was referring to Place In Line, not Public Image Ltd!
Herr Lydon’s ties to the DP family are indeed flimsy, Steve Vai’s collaboration with him on PIL’s 1985 “Album” is about all I can think of.
https://youtu.be/No-nXDCy0hA
I thought the Sex Pistols were mostly a hype (I did like the Ramones), but Lydon can be a riot as an interview partner and often says perceptive things under his court jester guise. He was indeed an Alice Cooper, Gong (and other Prog Rock) as well as Status Quo fan. Concerning the latter, he once alienated his fans with the comment: “I liked the Ramones, but I liked Status Quo more. They are incredibly good at what they do, limited as it is.”
Billy Idol’s Generation X (his first Punk band) were actually Deep Purple/Ritchie fans which caused derision among the UK music press at the time – Generation X were viewed as posers because of it.
https://youtu.be/6tr2HBJJQGU
And Dave Greenfield, the organist of The Stranglers, was a lifelong Jon Lord fan.
https://youtu.be/2tfy8f9lDD0
January 30th, 2024 at 13:39John @32: Great to hear those highlights of the Lord pulled together, danke!
Hey, I like Christopher Cross! And who says his songs can’t be heavy? Just let one of them get into the grubby hands of Auntie Biff & Company!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3cw5ftPPF4
Gonna see them in March – together with Uriah Heep as openers for the mighty Priest. Always look forward to seeing them, they are blissfully dumb in a great way.
January 30th, 2024 at 16:22Uwe
I was just being corny.
My ex loved Billy Idol, wish I had known this way back.
She cringed when I said I loved Hammond Organ
I think she was thinking of something else than we would have.
She was more into”what was hip” et all.
She didnt cook but sex was heaven.
January 31st, 2024 at 23:55Oh well.
I really liked Billy Idol myself too – I once saw a gig with him where he could barely sing a note because he had such a horrible cold, it was painful to watch and listen to. That same night his management forced him to go to the hospital at gun point – he had a bad case of pneumonia and they had to pull the tour. It impressed me that he had soldiered through the gig (even though that was ill-advised considering his health).
There was a phase in the 80ies when Hammond organ – a marvelous instrument, especially when played in a rhythmic/percussive manner – really met derision, all those nasty comments by John Sykes and DC about Jon Lord ‘dating’ the WS sound, Gary Moore disliked Hammond in that era too (but went back to it for his later Blues forays). Everybody just wanted to hear rhythm-less synth layers (‘push-tone-keyboards’ I’d call them), the more artificial the better. Yuck!
I remember thinking when this song came out with its prominent, funky Hammond sound in 1992 (basically a James Brown tribute really): Ok, the Hammond is back and it took an ingenious musician with a great ear like the diminutive Minneapolitan to resurrect it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfHsF6FKgb4
That Hammond solo at 04:10 is Jon Lord-worthy.
***********
“She didnt cook but sex was heaven.”
You’ve got to set priorities RV !!!
February 1st, 2024 at 11:26@ Uwe
A man has got to eat?
Sam Brown had a huge hit around 88, great Hammondsolo.
February 3rd, 2024 at 00:17@49: Yeah, too bad the Hammond solo was cut off the radio edit…
February 3rd, 2024 at 01:32I think I never heard the single version, Svante, I saw it mostly on MTV + bought the album (0n the strength of the song), my first Prince album in fact. As if cutting the Hammond solo would have made a song more commercially palatable that contained “mother fucker” in the chorus over and over (the MTV version had the “fucker“ part mixed down to being unintelligible, but you still got the gist) and featured a feverish (poly)rhythm white people can‘t dance to (that‘s a fact, I‘ve seen it happen in discos several times, put on that song and a white audience is dumbfounded on how to move to it, it‘s the same effect as with James Brown‘s Sex Machine).
February 3rd, 2024 at 12:16@51: I was referring to Sam Brown’s “Stop” that Rock wrote about. They cut the Hammond solo ridiculously short on that one.
Of course, when the album came out. some people thought it was Jon playing the solo given his history with the Browns, but that was not the case. I think he played piano on a song on her second album though.
February 3rd, 2024 at 14:55Yup, he did, that’s why I have it!
She can’t hold a note anymore (Sam), very tragic, something with her vocal cords (at 06:30).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNg73HzoiDU
February 3rd, 2024 at 23:20Look what I found: Ms Brown on piano supported by an elder gentleman & his organ.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMul0e8PY70
February 4th, 2024 at 00:14One of the many reasons I rate Jon Lord’s Before I Forget album so highly, higher than any other album in fact from Mr Lord. Vicky & Sam Brown, sublime indeed. A tragedy Vicky died so young & then Sam to lose her voice. I have never thought to look her up online to see if she ever recovered at all. It is good to see she has returned to the musical world & is enjoying that aspect of her life again. A good interview that was. Thanks for that. Cheers
February 4th, 2024 at 02:37And here is the piano track with Jon which Svante mentioned – off her second album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiP2mAugiLk
February 4th, 2024 at 10:06If you were able to sing like this,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWZ6hmHj2MA
not being able to sing anymore at all must be terrible.
Clare Torry’s original vocals on the studio version can of course never be matched (and she deservedly received – albeit belatedly and only after taking Pink Floyd and EMI to court – a co-songwriter’s credit), but Sam’s rendition was impressive nonetheless.
PS: I always assumed Clare Torry was a black woman the way she sang … oops, my cultural bias, not so at all:
https://theartsdesk.com/sites/default/files/styles/mast_image_landscape/public/mastimages/Clare%20Torry_crop.jpg?itok=9WMPuWbV
You live and learn!
February 4th, 2024 at 14:02@ 57 – seems like we are not the only ones who live under a rock then?. Cheers.
February 4th, 2024 at 21:22Yo,
Herr Uwe said qt.”Clare Torry’s original vocals on the studio version can of course never be matched (and she deservedly received – albeit belatedly and only after taking Pink Floyd and EMI to court – a co-songwriter’s credit), but Sam’s rendition was impressive nonetheless”.
LOL ! Oddly enough, I honestly was awaiting a comment like this about Clare Torry appearing in the next thread about Bob Daisly…And I totally disagree with the courts decision, & would say that they have no right or business to judge on this paid-in-full-matter of the time, & that it’s only greed-motivated on Clare’s part.
1.Yes, her performance was great, & it served the record very-well, Alan Parson did well to recommend her.
2.To ease her nerves, David Gilmour did offer to direct her, & write-out a chord-chart to help her map a way through Rick’s chord-sequence, but she declined. She was simply told to “go-for-it”, the tunes about life & death, sing what you feel.
3.She was unhappy with her performance at the time, citing congestion from a flu.
4.The band was so blown-away at the time from her performance, they were dumb-struck, & Clare left feeling indifferent about the session, as no-one said anything.
5.She was paid in full at the time for her services, & happy for decades. Her name within the credits is where more work-activity would / should have come from.
6. It’s imo disgraceful that she did what she did decades later, & was greed motivated. I have lost interest in this spectacular album because of her greed motivated antics, though perhaps it serves well as a lead-up to the next tune “Money”…
Does this also mean that Dick Parry, or say Alan Parson can take the band to court & claim for for money for executing a flawless saxophone-solo, & Alan to claim that “without my production, the record would not have sold as well” ???…
I bet you my last dollar that she doesn’t get much work these-days ! Brain-damage indeed…
No wonder we have mostly garbage to listen to on the radio today, greed has killed things off.
Peace !
February 4th, 2024 at 21:50@ 59 – I think you are being a little harsh there Gregster on Clare Torry being ‘greedy’. She is a down to earth lady & was more than likely only after what she deserved, just like most people would hope for. I think from my memory she was paid 20 pounds at the time (1973) or something like that. Probably what was a standard rate for a small minor performance, who can tell. The Another Brick in the Wall part two hit single from The Wall album with the school choir singing may have given Clare the idea. I could be wrong but my memory tells me so as they (the school) did ‘sue’ if that is the word to use for unpaid or extra royalties or performance salary or whatever it is titled. I have read & watched an interview or two with Torry & she wasn’t after any great amount at all. A co- songwriting credit she did receive also & fair enough, just some sort of ‘compensation’ as such. David Gilmour & the Floyd management were more than happy to accommodate her & also the school. Who knows what Dick Parry received as he was a participating band member on stage each night performing. For two albums in the 70’s & later in the early 90’s again. Alan Parsons would have had some contractual arrangement with Floyd being in a much larger position in the regards to the complete album. Cheers.
February 5th, 2024 at 10:24Now Ayn’t that true, li(e)ber(tarian) Gregster, is Frau Rand your favorite sociological author? It sure sounds like it.
Let me recapitulate: Greedy grifty disposable underlings having the audacity to take the rightful multi-multi-millionaire sole masters of creation to court because they think their less than self-guided and thus utterly replaceable contribution wasn’t amply rewarded with £ 30 for a musical passage many people regard as key on an album that sold 45 million copies? How dare she … Way to go to make Atlas shrug!
Perhaps a litigation wouldn’t have become necessary had someone taken her to the side at one point and said: “You know what, your contribution was of great value to us, the album wouldn’t have been what it is without you. As a token of our appreciation here is sum X.”
But of course one can also take the view “£ 30 was plenty and you agreed to it at the time as a 25-year old no-name studio singer, now don’t get greedy and attempt to indiscriminately deprive us of the hard-earned fruits of our sanctified entrepreneurial spirit”. Did I phrase that right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1tj2zJ2Wvg
February 5th, 2024 at 11:23@ 61 – wouldn’t it have been better to highlight Welcome to the Machine or Have a Cigar or Money. Might as well keep it in the family. Cheers.
February 5th, 2024 at 19:54@ 60 & 61…
Clare was “Paid In Full”, period…Being credited as a “co-songwriter” is a joke, since she was instructed to IMPROVISE with NO WORDS over music that was already existing.
Great performance no-doubt ! But the tune was never released as a single…Contained no words…And was actually seen at the time by the band, as filler for side one after “Time”…
And what if the album was a flop ??? And didn’t sell ??? We’d still have a remarkable performance, but no money to plunder…
Your positions also suggest that Vanetta Fields deserves the same for her contributions to the follow-up”Wish you were here”…
There are a few authors who’s work I celebrate & re-read, from Goethe to Rudolf Steiner, to James Gilliland or Peter Maxwell Slattery lol ! And if my legally correct position displays some Ayn Rand influence, so-be-it, she is correct !
***I once worked for free for a number of seasons within a Motorcycle Race Team in the early 2,000’s, & did apply some hard-earned technical assistance & advice plus guidance, that was ultimately followed-through by the team with some success. And since that time, the rider has become a World Champion, off-my-back, & early years of free-support, where his successes were directly the result of my hard-work & effort.
I want my money & compensation please ! And I’m taking the team to court for my lack of compensation…
Do you have an issue with this claim ???
Peace !
February 5th, 2024 at 19:57@ Svante
I m feeling silly here, not being aware of an edit in that solo.
It must have been around 88 I bought the single, not sure if I ever got around hearing the album.
I recall WANTING this new hero and trying to get into her other songs and, yey here we go, expexting more of the STOP thing.
I think her maxi singles contained take out tracks…..Something which hooked me but was a very pricey affaire following that path.
I was one of these people thinking this must be Jon Lord, ow dear silly me….
I did let Jon, sitting in the lounge of the Hilton in 98 , I assumed drinking tea, sign some stuff, incl his latest wonderfull solo album Pictured Within and started on about the solo, ouch…
“That wasnt me.” Ouch.
I had several of those shaming moments…
Do have a talent for that, I think being nervous also made me say stupid things.
It struck me the parallel between ABANDON and STORMBRINGER, both perceived as lesser DP albums, I kinda changed regarding the last one, and Lord making superior soloalbums during/around the recording of the DP stuff.
Both SARABANDE and PW are jewels in the DP family library.
I notice that SAM BROWN hits some boxes here as well. Yesterday I was kinda indulging myself on TOUTUBE, enjoying stuff I never heard, interviews.
Such a wonderful woman, singer, artist.
It is possible to be that and very sweet.
BTW. I m not so sure HAMMOND was ever completely gone.
February 5th, 2024 at 22:15Wasnt it present in The Jam and or the Style Council ?
“Do you have an issue with this claim ???”
Lieber Gregster, you’re essentially saying that Clare Torry’s and the Abbey Road Studio’s cleaning woman’s contribution to the success of The Dark Side Of The Moon have the same quality and that both were paid for their services so where’s the issue with both of them not participating in the least in the vast commercial impact of the album?!
I politely disagree. Sometimes a certain part of a popular song takes on a life of its own – think of EvH’s solo in Michael Jackson’s Beat It (he never asked to get paid, but then he could afford not to) or the sax intro to George Rafferty’s Baker Street. It grows into defining the song. That is what happened to The Great Gig In The Sky and Clare’s improvisational vocals in it. Whether that song was a single (as if at that stage Pink Floyd had still been a singles band) or whether it was initially intended as a filler (so was Smoke On The Water btw) is besides the point.
TGGITS became a live staple of Pink Floyd, David Gilmour and Roger Waters gigs (even though it was originally a Richard Wright composition until Clare got a co-credit). There would have been riots if it hadn’t been played. It’s also one of the key mood-determining songs on TDSOTM. In rankings of the best songs from that most popular Pink Floyd album, it is regularly named among the top three together with Time and Us & Them. Rolling Stone readers voted it as the second-best rock vocal performance ever (after Bohemian Rhapsody).
No, Ayn Rand wasn’t correct. She was obsessed with a perverse socio-Darwinism and putting the individual – which to her was the sole driver of humanity’s development – on the pedestal of her ideology. To be fair, growing up in Stalinist Russia might have traumatized her. Still, she has advocated the most inane things:
QUOTE
Rand’s Objectivism rejects primitivism and tribalism, while arguing that they are symptomatic of an “anti-industrial” mentality. Rand claims that the indigenous Native Americans had no claim to property rights. When Rand addressed West Point Military Academy cadets in 1974 and was asked about the dispossession and “cultural genocide” of Native Americans which occurred en route to forming the United States, she replied that indigenous people “had no right to a country merely because they were born here and then acted like savages … Since the Indians did not have the concept of property or property rights – they didn’t have a settled society, they had predominantly nomadic tribal “cultures” – they didn’t have rights to the land, and there was no reason for anyone to grant them rights that they had not conceived of and were not using.” Rand went on to opine that “in opposing the white man” Native Americans wished to “continue a primitive existence” and “live like animals or cavemen”, surmising that “any European who brought with him an element of civilization had the right to take over this continent.”
UNQUOTE
With that line of reasoning, any superior alien life form from outer space could take over our planet and eradicate mankind – with Ayn Rand applauding the “victory of progress” in the background. Think about it.
I believe that a world in which Clare Torry’s contribution to TDSOTM is artistically valued AND, yes, also remunerated fairly to be infinitely better than Auntie Rand’s über-libertarian science fiction which to me has a decidedly dystopian flavor to it.
*****************************************
“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
JOHN ROGERS
February 6th, 2024 at 15:50LOL,
@ 65…I do have to state-in-full, that you’re placing words in my mouth Leiber Uwe, & that’s misleading the people, & the subject matter loses all validity.
1. Care Torry was paid-in-Full at the time…
2. The fact that her name appears within the albums credits is / was her opportunity to cement a positive career in music, if she chose to.
3. The album is selling well to this day, & therefore, so is her name within the credits.
4. She’s clearly double-dipping, & therefore greedy.
5. Whether “we” think she deserve more $$$ or not is irrelevant, it’s not our money to give from the PF bank-account.
6. At the end of the day, it’s a win-win for both parties from the media interest generated, & it’s likely that the album even bounced-back into the charts.
7. I believe that she should have opened an account on the internet, & all those people that think she deserves more $$$, could then have donated to her cause.
I could care less about Ayn Rand. She appealed enough to Neil Peart of RUSH & helped him compose some lyrics, that he thought worthy of noting in the album credits.
Tolkien is a great writer, I have most of his books. The Silmarillion is where-its-all-at imo. Extraordinary ability to draw-one-into his imaginary world. It’s possible that you may benefit from reading some of his works, as everyone does who reads them.
qt.”Good morning Worm-your-honor,
the court can plainly see the prisoner who now stands before you,
was caught red-handed showing feelings…
Feelings, of an almost human nature…
This will not do”…
Peace !
February 6th, 2024 at 22:39Here is the contrast with the school choir receiving belated royalties for their 1979 performance on Pink Floyd’s ‘Another Brick In The Wall’ part two song. It appears that they received some cash also. Cheers.
https://www.bigissue.com/culture/music/meet-the-lawyer-fighting-for-royalties-due-to-the-unsung-heroes-of-christmas/
February 7th, 2024 at 00:14Spare me with Tolkien, literature- or cinematic-wise! Escapist crypto-religious rubbish fairy tale, and no decent juicy sex parts in it either. Didn’t even see the point of it as a teenager.
I prefer George Orwell and Anthony Burgess. Or John Steinbeck.
February 7th, 2024 at 14:39