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Anything for a buck
Russian English language weekly St.Petersburg Times in it’s article “Buyer beware” writes about the practice of local promoters misrepresenting the artists for something they are not. Advertisement for the upcoming Over The Rainbow show in St.Petersburg is given as one of the examples:
As the advertising campaign for the show began late last year, posters and smaller advertisements for the upcoming local concert had a different version of the band’s logo. The word “Rainbow” was in the largest type, while the words “Over the” are inexplicably hidden in small type somewhere below.
The posters also describe Over the Rainbow as a “Legenda Roka” (the Russian for “A Legend of Rock”), even though the band’s formation was officially announced in a press release only in December. (“Legends of Rock,” in plural, perhaps would be correct, as related to some of the members, but “A Legend” in singular over the word “Rainbow” implies that it will be a concert by none other than Rainbow itself.)
The whole article is posted online (with photos of questionable posters). The Highway Star gets a couple of name checks in there.
Unauthorized copying, while sometimes necessary, is never as good as the real thing
They basically do the same with tribute bands(all over the world even in my home town), too. They write something like LED ZEPPELIN in giant letters and in very tiny ones very small “as performed by the tribute band [thisandthat]”.
February 5th, 2009 at 23:3269: tribute bands normally do not perform the same size of venues as the original. and when they do, as the australian floyd show, advertisement is usually pretty clear it’s not the real thing.
February 5th, 2009 at 23:57That´s what I forgot to add, as I often talk to the promoters of the venues(usually small clubs, alright) who book the tribute bands, stating that the bands own names never would draw enough attention as the names of the bands they pay tribute to.
I didn´t notice what kind of a venue/promotion was behind the russian Rainbow ads.
I think this would be analogue to a venue announcing Pink Floyd, whearas it´s actually David Gilmour, even if he plays mostly Pink Floyd tunes.
February 6th, 2009 at 02:11It happens everywhere, and in various forms.
The Concerto tour was billed in certain countries with guest Dio, making it seem he was opening, and some crowds showed their affection for him in a big way when he came and left the stage so fast. Also, they often left the orchestra factor out of ads, my guess in order to drive better sales.
But isn’t this whole OTR thing a Russian promoters idea? Sounds like it to me, such as HTP shows consisting of four or five mkII songs, including ones like WFT that Hughes never did with Purp in the first place.
This kind of thing annoys me, playing a substantial portion of a show of songs that no one in the band had anything to do with. Much less by two one timers, than the ones using the name, even though that has zero appeal to me as well.
OTR presents a different take though, at least.(that is if they don’t play “ANY” DP songs)
February 6th, 2009 at 02:44I wish them all success in the world…..if there’s no ‘other’ songs in the set list, just new songs. EOC
Cheers
February 6th, 2009 at 05:2969: blackmore’s night played the same venue last year. a better analogy here would probably be company of snakes booked into london’s hammesmith odeon and advertised as whitesnake. true, most of the guys were in whitesnake, but no band without coverdale can be presented as whitesnake. same goes for rainbow. without blackmore senior it’s not rainbow. 95% of the punters don’t read fan sites on the internet, they go with what’s on the posters plastered around town. and half of them don’t read fine print. they will be mightily pissed off.
Crimson: afaik, OTR is indeed backed by a russian company. they act as OTR’s booking agent for eastern europe. there are also local promoters in each city. and those promoters are often, ahem, willing to stretch the truth when advertising their gig. my humble opinion is that it was a bad idea to call the project like this. because such things are now just bound to happen.
February 6th, 2009 at 05:40As suspected and I agree… it’s also been conveyed to me from inside OTR’s PR that Ritchie was in fact not happy at all to hear they were using the ‘Rainbow’ name after discussing the project with Jurgen and giving him his consent.(you’d think he would have mentioned the name in that conversation, so who knows what to think about that)
I know bands have been put together this way since the 50’s, but a little cohesiveness can never hurt. I hope they don’t sacrifice integrity for money, because it can easily happen… JLT needs to come on strong or this could be a short lived venture. I’d just like to see it be all it can be.
February 6th, 2009 at 07:29Yes, here is giant posters with biggest letters RAINBOW. I coming to one of them and letters “Over the…” just don’t seen. They are very small. So, many people asks me about this concert and don’t correctly understand that is not Rainbow, as they want to see it))
February 6th, 2009 at 07:43“HTP” “WFT” “EOC” ???? 😉 🙂
“OTR” AND “JLT” I understand, hahahaha.
February 6th, 2009 at 09:39Rainbow……….in large letters….??
Who’s in the cast??
Obviously JLT is playing Dorothy, buts who’s Toto?
Cant wait for those closing lines:
JLT:”Oh, but anyway, Toto, we’re home. Home! And this is my room, and you’re all here. And I’m not gonna leave here ever, ever again, because I love you all, and – oh, Auntie Em – there’s no place like home!”
February 6th, 2009 at 10:23Jurgen(as the lion): ” do believe in spooks. I do believe in spooks. I do, I do, I do, I do, I *do* believe in spooks”
February 6th, 2009 at 10:24Ritchie Blakmore (guest appearance as the wicked witch): “I’ll get you my pretty… and your little dog too!”
February 6th, 2009 at 10:26I just hope JLT gets his lipstick shade just right…….
If his lips clash with his ‘Ruby Slippers’….. It could spell disaster!!
For one night only……..
Fingers crossed
February 6th, 2009 at 10:45The Circus comes to town………
February 6th, 2009 at 10:53I’d like too see this band here in Italy,at all…It is only curiousity.
February 6th, 2009 at 12:23nick: I actually saw M3 a couple of years ago at my local venue and they were billed as Whitesnake. Sure it wasn´t a big venue and not the one where Whitesnake would play in, but still I think most people cared for the songs performed and not so much who actually was in the band(well maybe not in the case of a Coverdale less Whitesnake, but certainly in similar cases). That´s pretty sad but awfully close to the truth.
February 6th, 2009 at 12:41But I of course see the difference in the size of the venue you were pointing out and the probabilty of the real band actually performing there.
You know those posters that say ABBA (the show)? I think that´s pretty lousy too as they play that big(they even advertise with having original band members but that only refers to the backing band that has always been interchargeable).
February 6th, 2009 at 12:44keep on Rock’n JLT.
February 6th, 2009 at 13:23… money makes the world go round world go round …
(It´s simply everywere the old song … )
It´s an real shame !
February 6th, 2009 at 13:42james jay,
Are you sure that JLT is rockin’ and rollin’??
February 6th, 2009 at 16:44Don’t you think that he’s just doing his best to earn 50$ more, to buy a better-quality lipsticks??? fuck this barbie, JLT is NOT a rockstar, he’s another clown just like Christina Aguilera or so… the difference is, that Christina is a woman (and a moer beautifull one), and surely, Christina has a far too greater vocal range than JLT…
This goes all the way back to when they first announced the venture as Purple Rainbow.
No matter how you cut it, it’s a cheesy attempt to capitalize on someone else’s success. Yes I know some of these guys (not all) of them were in Rainbow and one was short lived in Purple, and contributed to some of the songs they will be COVERING, but it really only qualifies as a Tribute Act. That doesn’t mean the music won’t be good. Of course it will be good. It has already been tested. Long Ago. Purple and Rainbow songs are GREAT. I will gladly go and see them if they come near my town, but then again, I go to local pubs to listen to local Cover Bands also. And that is all these guys are offering. Cover Band…
Without putting out an original record and thus only going out on tour playing songs from “RITCHIE BLACKMORE’S RAINBOW” and “DEEP PURPLE” completely makes them a Tribute Act and that is that. I’m sure it will be a nice tribute and very entertaining, but that’s all it is.
CHANGE THE NAME, PUT OUT A RECORD, BE A REAL BAND!!!!!
Cheers
February 6th, 2009 at 18:06#20 he sang on one of the best purple albums since 1984. I could give a fart about lipstick or spandex—as long as the music is good.
February 6th, 2009 at 20:30Uh… Tony Cary did retract that PR would not be playing any classic DP.
I’m sure it’s still the plan with OTR, but you can bet they’ll play something from S&M, and I guess sort of rightfully so, since it represents Joe’s later work in the band that really started it all, so I doubt they won’t at least go there. But if SOTW is played, get out of
here…….!
Btw, according to both Jurgen and Greg Smith so far, an album is their aim, but of course they have to make some quid and see if it and the crowds inspire them to get together in the same room and write together. And I’m not sure it’s the best idea, as the novelty factor has mass appeal beyond the contemporary classic rock environment these days, whether we like it or not… these guys are out for the curious youth and the older generation of casual fans market, and they’re lucky there is one… the Russian promoters fall under the latter, obviously, lol!
February 6th, 2009 at 20:34james jay says:
#20 he sang on one of the best purple albums since 1984. I could give a fart about lipstick or spandex—as long as the music is good.
====
Not that it’s a crime or anything, but it falls at number one or two worst all time Purple albums, according to most I’ve bothered noticing comments from on the subject, and they usually gripe about the album as a whole because of the categorical approach to the songs not being of their(DP’s)genre, rather it’s bi-hair genre, than JLT himself. It wasn’t till he failed miserably on tour with his antics and lyric slaughtering before the real rot showed.( S&M, definitely in the ‘worst’ pile for me anyway)
February 6th, 2009 at 20:44But your point about JLT is fair, whatever completes the puzzle for you, but for me he didn’t even fill one of it’s critically missing pieces in any way. If S&M was an improvement on THOBL, then I missed it.
That is also my point……
The inspiration should be about the Band and the Music and then springing it on the public. Not the other way around….
It’s just a turn off to us whom know the difference and are followers of the Purple and Rainbow Coalition…..The folks who are not familiar with Rainbow are not going to judge, but you can bet those whom are fans will, and rightfully so. It still stinks of a total rip-off and lame approach no matter how you slice it.
I guess deep down inside…..I wish I was in Deep Purple or Rainbow too, just like JLT…..
Cheers
February 6th, 2009 at 20:48I liked “Slaves And Masters.” Did it sound more like RAINBOW? Yes. But it was an official DEEP PURPLE release. One could argue that “Come Taste The Band” was more of GLENN HUGHES or DAVID COVERDALE release. It is however a DEEP PURPLE release that I really enjoy.
Have a good weekend everyone!:)
February 6th, 2009 at 22:46I agree with james jay.
Slaves & Masters was easly the best of the Reunion Era albums (The worst: The Battle Rages On and Bananas). As a musician, it is easy to dissect the songs in an objective way without bias against the way a singer looks. Music matters.
Although “Too Much Is Not Enough” should have been replaced with “Slow Down Sister,” songs like “The Cut Runs Deep” and “King of Dreams” carry a heaviness lacking in today’s incarnation. The ballads are far superior to anything Mk II Purple had done to that point in both arrangement and execution, and “Wicked Ways” was an epic–a form that Purple has not used since.
Paice was on fire, both Lord and Blackmore did some of their best playing ever, and Glover is prominent throughout. The production was far beyond the last two albums, with Bananas being especially muddy and Slaves & Masters closer to Perfect Strangers in audio quality–a leap ahead of The House of Blue Light. A shame they did not leave what would become The Battle Rages On in its original form.
Because Gillan was not on it, Slaves & Masters carries a stigma despite the quality of music. Some are unable to get over the fact that Gillan was not there, in the same way that some are unable to accept the fact that Blackmore is not in the current line-up. As james jay said, “…as long as the music is good.” That’s the bottom line. Gillan or Turner or Blackmore or Morse–who cares as long as we have good, jamming tunes.
One of the criticisms of Slaves & Masters was that it sounded like Rainbow, and many are unable to come to terms with that, delegitimatizing the album with the argument that “It did not sound like Deep Purple.”
It could be just as easily argued that the current incarnation sounds like Gillan, but for some reason, that fact is frequently overlooked and forgiven. Rapture of the Deep was a step in the right direction, but Purple has not had a solid, heavy album since Abandon.
Critics ought to get past lipstick and spandex since these things have nothing to do with the music. Turner’s performance style and stage prescence might be questionable to some, but when listening to the music–and we hear the music far more often than we see it performed–one need not look at Turner’s picture.
As for Over the Rainbow, no–I do NOT think that Turner is just milking the cash cow or sponging off someone else’s music. He was a PART of that music–and a large part of it. Whether in Rainbow or Deep Purple, Joe Lynn Turner was a major factor in the composition of the music. The man is an artist, and singing is what he does.
Of COURSE they are employing the Rainbow angle–their inclusion on one line-up or the other is for what these members are mostly known! With no Rainbow connection, there is no point is this particular group of musicians getting together. A group that encompasses the range of the group’s history is an exciting prospect–not an impetus for dissent.
As for the advertising, that is an issue to be taken up with the promoters–not the band.
Concert-goers should always READ the adverts, including the small writing. It’s only misleading if one merely looks at the pretty pictures and does not read the information.
February 6th, 2009 at 22:53Does any one want to tell Paicey or Lord that Mark IV was not a Purple album? Or Paicey, Lord, Blackmore, and Glover that Mark V was not Purple too? Granted Joe Lynn was not the greatest Purple singer, but Slaves and Masters was not that bad. And Come Taste The Band was a great album. A Deep Purple album beats no Deep Purple album. An Coverdale/Hughes were great on the Burn Album.
February 6th, 2009 at 23:07T:
I agree with your perception on the S&M issue whereby it is criticized for being too Rainbowish. I also agree with you on the fact that they have not put out a ‘Heavy Album’ since Abandon. I also agree with getting past the lipstick and spandex and centering on the music….BUT..
The JLT in Purple issue mostly is picked on due to how he handled himself as the front man of this Hard Rock Band that is also a Class Act. He took a real iconic band and made a mockery of if as far as I’m concerned regarding his attitude on and off stage. Since he was sacked after only one album, his lack of longevity also contributes to the ridicule. It wound up being a one off and since he really didn’t fit in for Purple overall, he is less valid in some’s view.
Also, as far as your statement regarding his musicianship and ignoring his antics…..Can’t do it. I’ve seen him too many times and every time I see him live, I want to throw my chair at him. Look, even my wife (who loves Purple and Rainbow) wanted to leave when we saw him recently with Scrap Metal. Sorry but on stage he is a moron.
Purple is a LIVE BAND. They make records every 4 years and tour extensively. Having JLT as the frontman, whereby going to see them as often as I do, it would be a painstaking event. As far as his vocals? I have never had a problem with his vocals. He has a great AOR voice. He should have put in for Foreigner when Lou Gramm left. But to continue as Purple’s front man? I don’t think so. S&M was a good One Off Purple/Rainbow album, and it has it’s merits. If Purple only made albums and didn’t tour, he would be fine, but watching his lame teeny bopper ‘I’m the shit’ display would be nothing to look forward to regarding seeing them live.
OTR is exactly where he belongs. And again there is nothing wrong with playing some tunes from where they are from and where they are known, but to make it the total aspect of effort? LAME. Since they are all such great musicians and song writers, MAKE AN ALBUM. I can crank up Rainbow and Purple tunes all day long. Give us something original and new. Otherwise….sorry to say, Just A Tribute Act. Nothing more.
Just my opinion……I’m not alone, that’s for sure.
Cheers
February 6th, 2009 at 23:30Gillan or no Gillan, AOR is not Purples genre, but if I’m convincingly corrected I’ll eat those words… Hanted comes to mind, but it’s one song, not an entire album.
Stigma attachments don’t seem to be a factor after all these years, you like something because you think it’s good, usually.
It’s the same problem concerning mk8, I’m sure an overwhelming percentage of those who don’t like what they hear, is the reason they don’t like it.
Ritchie not being there is going to have a camp full of that stigma as well as with Gillan, but that’s totally irrelevant here and has not one sliver of bearing. Those people are stuck to their dismay, plain and simple… I’m not one of them and don’t appreciate being stereotyped as such just because I follow things very closely and happen to enjoy what I hear. But any ignorance about that concerning me is ignorance, I just keep my opinion about this in my back pocket in case anybody tries to stereotype me because of my enthusiasm.(bollocks!)
Now, if someone is of the opinion that “Picture Of Innocence,” “Silver Tongue,” “Sun Goes Down,” etc… lacks a ‘heaviness’ found on S&M, then fine, I hear it completely the other way around, but to digress a second, “Haunted” is another story, but waaaaay better crafted and delivered than “LQA.”
(my opinion is one thing, your mileage may very, but lets be realistic about this particular thing concerning a lack of anything compared to S&M)
By the way… Paice was not on fire, are you kidding me, he went on vacation due to boredom and Roger did the best drum parts, even in the most Paice drenched track on the album, the aforementioned “The Cut Runs Deep” so saying he was on fire doesn’t jive with me, and I find it hard to see it that way, knowing what I know about the recording and hearing what I heard in the result. The concerts did see Paice practically stealing the show though, but that applies more to the line up than what was on the record, any day.(I’ve listened to every circulated show from that tour, which is damn near all the shows they played, and the consensus hasn’t changed)
I also don’t think it sounded at all like Rainbow and have never made that popular conclusion. It sounds like Bad CO w/Howe to me at that time, and the fact that they were trying to get him in after witnessing him on the 97 tour, opening shows, only backs what I’m saying… that’s the sound and image they were going for, and it didn’t stop on TBRO, Gillan just made it sound a bit that way… “Lick It Up” is so much like “One Night”(ain’t no love affair)it isn’t even funny, from the snare roll at the beginning, to the words “shooting star” reminding even more of Bad CO. I am so f’ing glad they stopped that approach, it was beginning to annoy.(mid-tempo marketing) They’re a hell of a lot more well rounded now. I don’t need any stigma attachments to sway my line of thinking, I gave it a chance on it’s own merit, and to this day I simply don’t like the line up, but that doesn’t mean S&M is a bad album imo, just a bad DP album. Is that so hard to swallow?
I agree about who to take advertising up with, the same parties who a lot of gripes should be taken up with, but folks keep blaming the artists for these things. Pretty shallow if you ask me.
Slap that ass of yours all you want JLT, it was NOT for Deep Purple or it’s majority of fans, and that is a heavily backed statement.(although anything is sometimes worth a try, the record company didn’t think the second try was worth any effort, so I’m still glad they got that ball rolling and things turned out the way they did) Paying Ritchie to take Gillan back says it all, really… must have been worth it, eh?)
Gawd!
February 7th, 2009 at 06:12Tracy, very astute observations and we agree more than you probably realize. One clarification, however, is that I never said to bring Joe BACK–just that his album was a great one, and it’s regrettable they didn’t start Gillan’s return AFTER what would be The Battle Rages On. “Stroke of Midnight” is very, very telling. It would be hard to argue, though, that the Mk II singer is not the preëminent Voice of Deep Purple.
Crimson Ghost, time to get out your napkin and “eat those words” as promised in #29. AOR stands for “album-oriented rock”–a move AWAY from the short, poppy 45 singles of the 1950’s and 1960’s–and which sometimes had stations playing all of “In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida” or a whole side of Dark Side of the Moon. Deep Purple has been an album-oriented rock band since the 1970’s when AOR FM became universal and the airwaves were filled with “Smoke on the Water,” “Highway Star,” “Hush,” “Woman From Tokyo,” and later “Perfect Strangers.” Even Glover’s alternate mix of “Smoke on the Water” is regularly played on AOR.
If your are referring to the one or two more accessible songs on Slaves & Masters as being not of Deep Purple’s “genre”, I feel compelled to point out the horrid “Call of the Wild” and juvenile “Hard Lovin’ Woman” from The House of Blue Light and the equally poppy “House of Pain” and “I Got Your Number” from Bananas–the latter of which is a great song–but it is undeniably on the commercial side with its deliberate hook and echoed refrain line.
You will need to go back and listen to Slaves & Masters. Most of the album is heavy: “King of Dreams,” “The Cut Runs Deep,” “Fire in the Basement,” “Fortuneteller,” and “Wicked Ways” come to mind. “Truth Hurts” and “Love Conquers All” are in line with “Wasted Sunsets” so are not without precedent. “Breakfast in Bed” is musically similar to “Jealous Lover”. Only “Two Much Is Not Enough” matches your description and should never have made the album. One song does not an album make.
The absence of Blackmore creating a stigma for the current band is a valid point. “It’s not Deep Purple without Blackmore…” That’s just ridiculous. They have recorded four albums without him–and another two without Jon Lord–with Morse having a longer-running consecutive tenure than any Deep Purple guitarist. Your point is well taken.
“Pictures of Innocence” is fairly mild. I agree the blues-tinged “Silver Tongue” has a nice bottom end. “Sun Goes Down” and “Wrong Man” are also steps in the right direction and are highlights of their respective albums. These examples capture the spirit of what Deep Purple should be–among some others, such as “Rapture of the Deep”. Unfortunately, of late, they are few are far between, and these examples come from TWO albums.
As for the point about Ian Paice… Both Paice and Lord refused to write during the Slaves & Masters sessions, leaving the majority of the input to Turner, Glover, and Blackmore–the Rainbow core. Any lack of participation on their part was their own doing. Want proof? The album is universally hailed by legions of fans the world over as the “next” Rainbow album.
If Paice was “bored,” he was too much of a professional to let it show. Paice is not known for a lot of fancy flurries–his style is very simple and in the studio you’re not going to get a lot of frill: Boom-chick-boom-chick… By his own admission and Glover’s observation, even Paice’s fills are not wildly extravagent. Even so, he’s great at this simple style. The drums are well-recorded and strong-sounding. They “push” (important to a guitar player who gets a lot of the rhythmic ideas from the drummer), with some interesting passages in the middle of “The Cut Runs Deep” (similar to “Unwritten Law” in fact) with a great performance in the latter half of the song. “Fire in the Basement” is another obvious example. The sound is thick and the style is similar to other Purple albums.
Those who do not hear Rainbow in Slaves & Masters are in the minority. “Truth Hurts” is very similar to the style on Bent Out of Shape. As mentioned, “Breakfast in Bed” is reminiscent of “Jealous Lover”. The guitar in “Love Conquers All” is close to “Anybody There” or “Snowman” with the backing tracks in line with “Weiss Heim”.
The vocals on Slaves & Masters are obviously like Rainbow; however, the guitar playing was deliberately so as Blackmore wanted to take the band in that direction. The inclusion of Paice and Lord gave the album a more sophisticated, heavier Bent Out of Shape feel–a sort of Rainbow with a punch. The slower numbers had a pathos and intensity that Gillan-era ballads lack.
Turner was just as Deep Purple as Coverdale and Evans. No two Deep Purple albums sound alike, and Turner followed in that tradition. He proved Purple could made a great album under difficult circumstances in a musical environment that was dominated by grunge and rap. If popularity is a measure, Slaves & Masters charted better than The House of Blue Light: 87 to 192, respectively.
In #24, you said, “If S&M was an improvement on THOBL, then I missed it.”
You missed it.
Bon appétit.
February 7th, 2009 at 08:05DP and R-Bow have always had the revolving door—get over the fact that Morse replaced Ritchie and JLT stepped in for an album. All is good—-in my opinion. Comparing Gillian with JLT is like comparing Rob Halford and Billy Idol—they both pump their fists—but one is a screamer–the other a singer. It’s your preference. thanks.
February 7th, 2009 at 11:09Correction #30: The last large paragraph line should read “The Battle Rages On”–not “House of Blue Light”.
February 7th, 2009 at 16:16What we are speaking about again? Every time we (DP fans) want to compare something((( Is it possible to compare “S&M’ for example and “Bananas”. No. IMO.
February 7th, 2009 at 19:57Well T, I tried and tried to enjoy S&M as a whole album, but……..I came to realize that your preferences wasn’t my preference.
Altough I see Mk V (let alone Mk VI) as the worst line up of Deep Purple, but to see it from global view, I’m agree with you that never two DP albums sounded alike. Tradition made history.
Not to say at all that S&M, Mk V, and especially great Joe Lynn Turner were bad. No. I like to hear “King of Dreams” again and again (Joe’s voice was wonderful here and the song is enjoyable), but I don’t miss a song like this again from Deep Purple. And sure TCRD, Fortuneteller, and FiTB are real DP numbers. But the rest is suck!
Joe is always be one of the great American vocalist. He should be there to replace Lou Gramm in Foreigner, Steve Perry in Journey, or Sammy Hagar in Van Halen back in 1994. But whatever the history had made, I think he is absolutely NOT for Deep Purple.
Crimson and Tracy, you are right. Altough I never saw them live on stage (just from videos), but it’s clearly visible that the band was not happy, and each musician went on their own lane. Frustrated I think was the right words (the same went for DP MkIV live). One album was enough. And then Gillan came back again as a part of Deep Purple’s cloudest days ever.
SOOOOOOOOO….BACK TO THE TOPIC.
I hope Over The Rainbow could be a chance for Joe and the rest to pull the curtain up once again. Especially Joe, stop covering other artist songs in your professional career. That’s very bad for a great like you. Make your own good songs. Let’s see, what the cat will dragged in…
February 7th, 2009 at 21:15AOR??……Deep Purple are without a doubt an AOR band. The 2 radio stations I get to listen to are both AOR (1 is the “big” station, lots of advertising, corporate setlist you get the picture and the other is a small independent station only on the air for music from 6 am till 6 pm) anyway just this week the BIG station played an hour of DP on their “lunch program” and 2 weeks ago played the entire MIJ album (very late at night). They only play MKII and MKIII material with the exception of Ted, the other smaller station just the other day played Pictures Of Home (live MK VIII) and regularly plays Wrong Man, Ted and tracks from Bananas. I am lucky to have DJ’s that appreciate DP and have a little time to cut away from the corporate setlist. My whole point is that Deep Purple was and still is AOR, and I hope they always will be.
Cheers.
February 8th, 2009 at 01:20stoffer:
Me thinks you are confused about the turm AOR or….American Oriented Rock. It refers to a type of music, not whether it is played in America. Music such as Journey, REO Speedwagon, etc….hence the JLT sound.
WOW!! What stations are you listening to and WHERE? You are one lucky bastard to be able to turn on your radio and hear this array of Purple..Wish it would catch on.
Cheers
February 8th, 2009 at 01:30T:
I didn’t state that you wished to bring back JLT to Purple. I mainly exressed my view as to why he get’s beaten up so much by Purple Fans……and mostly deservant I must say….LOL
Cheers
February 8th, 2009 at 01:35Hey Tracy
February 8th, 2009 at 04:24To me AOR has always stood for album-oriented rock?
Check out the website of K-SHE 95 FM.
Cheers
heyyyyyy!!!
February 8th, 2009 at 05:27AOR = ADULT ORIENTED ROCK
you know a boring light pop rock
DP is not AOR (only S&M and maybe some of the last 2 albums)
AOR does stand for “album oriented rock.”
February 8th, 2009 at 06:59To me it’s so easy.I miss Rainbow a lot and I miss to hear som Purple tunes they never play. So I’m happy that OTR will soon be around. I agree that it might be a mistake to play Smoke…, Highway…, Black Night, Stargazer, Long live R&R etc, but there are so many other great songs they give us. I look forward to this BIG time (also just to see Jürgen playing) It must be a challenge of a life time to do his fathers songs. All the best to him.
February 8th, 2009 at 11:13Thank You T
February 8th, 2009 at 13:07Wow!!!!
You learn something every day….I had heard the term in discussion with an aquaintance, and thought that’s what it meant. See? I have no problem with being corrected…….LOL
In that case, I’d have to state that DEEP PURPLE falls under the AOR classification due to the fact that’s what they do…Make Albums not Singles or Hits.
Stoffer, you didn’t answer my question regarding the Radio Station you listen to that plays all of this Purple Music.
Cheers
February 8th, 2009 at 15:28Tracy, the station in K-SHE 95.com, (St.Louis) they do stream online and they go in spurts on Purple music might not play any for days and then BANG!! Check out their program features tab for some of their times that they play music that is…..shall we say….off the playlist and check out the museum some Purple stuff in there too!
February 8th, 2009 at 19:00Cheers and Good Luck
Ahh yes….St. Louis. That explains it. I saw Purple at the Pageant Theatre a couple years ago, and when we were approaching that area around noon, they played 6 songs during their Classic Lunch hour. That’s the first time I’ve heard that kind of attention for Purple on the radio in 20+ years…
What a great venue. Saw Alice Cooper there also last year. It’s a 5 hour drive for me but well worth it..
Thanks for the Radio Station info.
Cheers
February 8th, 2009 at 21:15I’ll be back on the rest of your fair but self preferred points T, but there are IN FACT, three meanings for the acronym “AOR.”
1. Album Oriented Rock
2. Adult Oriented Rock
The above two, see the second link on this page…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AOR
3. American Oriented Rock
(this one was actually a charted category at one time)
Now, I can swallow Purple having a huge part in the forming of this tri-format, but there is such a big difference between that and “trying” to “fit” such a thing you were highly responsible for innovating long before in the first place. = bad idea!
But I’m not saying they aren’t still guilty of it, it’s just that they’ll never completely do it, as where Ritchie went out on quite a limb with an album chalk full of it, although the album was a good retro active/try to crack the US radio market trip. So for that, the album should have merited more, and had it, Ritchie’s brown nosing idea might be better appreciated.
(Morse sure has a strong AOR/easy listening sensibility in his approach to writing Purple tunes, but I would call that more “AC” standing for “Adult Contemporary” however, trying to fit these categories is just plain industry slavery imo)
Nice try, hey… do something if you feel strongly about it, even if it’s wrong to begin with, or just turns out to be in hindsight. Especially is a good solid effort is made in the process.
I think if it really was right, it’s doom would not have impended so quickly… same with the Satch idea… Morse rose to the challenges that lied ahead, at least the “road” challenges anyway… not only would that be a tough thing to do with Purple, but any band that lost what “some” see as a “backbone.” I still feel it it were anyone besides Morse, the head knocker would have prevailed after an album or two, because the touring is enough to drop an elephant. But it is what it is… who’s fault at this point? Who cares, yada yada yada.
Cheers, I’ll be back with a couple of other points I feel strongly the opposite about, but are neither here nor there because of that, it’s only opined, there are no facts concerning them.
February 9th, 2009 at 00:08Tracy, I was at the Pageant too with my wife (her 1st Deep Purple show) and saw a geat show. Wow!! If they ever play there again lets have some beers together before the show.
February 9th, 2009 at 00:51Cheers
You got it….
When and if Purple, Cooper, hopefully Heaven & Hell, or the likes…..Maybe even Over the Rainbow if they actually last long enough to come this way, I’ll try and contact you on this site for sure if we are headed that way.
Cheers
February 9th, 2009 at 01:38#45
AOR stands for “album oriented rock.” It was a format on FM that went away from the practice of airing 45 singles and edited tracks to artists who concentrated on recording entire albums. It was not unusual for AOR to play entire albums uninterrupted. This is how I supplemented my album collection as a teen–or even pre-teen. I taped Toys in the Attic and Dark Side of the Moon from the radio commercial free long before I had them on an official medium.
The “classic rock” format is the current evolution of AOR. Apparently you already have done some research, so I’m not telling you anything you don’t already know.
Over time, the meaning of the abbreviation became lost to some due to the fact that the letters were used rather than the unabbreviated term, but it remains “album-oriented rock” in origin.
It is not unlike some believing the Oldsmobile 442 has a 442 cubic inch engine. The abbreviation stands for four bbl., four-speed, dual exhaust. Over time, these shortened terms can take on other meanings–sometimes accurate, sometimes not.
As the listening audience aged, they became “adults” and thus those who listened to this music considered it “adult-oriented rock”–as opposed to what the “kids” were listening to–but the change in nomenclature did not change its roots, and “album rock” continued.
Since many of the artists in the album-oriented rock format were American–this is because the term was applied in America where the largest market was–it came to be mistakenly referred to by many as “American-oriented rock”.
Station programmers usurped the DJs into a more standardized format by creating a playlist that included the rock artists of the time–including Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin, both British groups.
February 9th, 2009 at 01:56The preferred “nomenclature” concerning Deep Purple, would for an overwhelming majority of it’s fan base, and all those after mkI who passed through the band with the exception of perhaps Hughes and Turner, be “Hard Rock,” just ask them and us.
(industry slavery doesn’t allow it I tell ya)
This goes the distance in the debacle, and happenes to be the strongest argument without a doubt.
Now what?
The subject is redundant if you ask me, but since I started it… lol!
(I’d still rather not see someone in DP, slapping his own ass on stage, as JLT did, even on the first show of the tour! I have other reasons of course, “butt…”)
February 9th, 2009 at 02:19I dont care how well the drums were played, or if RB was having a good plectrum day, the technicalties are a fraction of any musical experience…….S&M is an abortion
You have to see past the poncing about, lipstick, hairspray, leather, lace, and ass slapping!!
Well…..
Close your eyes, and your ears……and I find JLT almost acceptable!!
Maybe his albums and gigs should come with an advisory notice ‘for full enjoyment, try total sensory deprivation’……
February 9th, 2009 at 10:23#52 Close your eyes, and your ears ….and I find JLT almost acceptable. The fact is S/M was an very good album—I will agree it was Rain-purple in sound, just as we have Gillian-purple now. Both okay in my book. However—not fair to bash a Rainbow influenced Deep Purple album and not a Gillain Band influenced Deep Purple—-neither hit the mark for fans wanting the classic line up and sound—those days are gone.
February 9th, 2009 at 11:58@53
‘The fact is S/M was a very good album’
Im not aware of any ‘facts’ to support that claim….
‘However—not fair to bash a Rainbow influenced Deep Purple album and not a Gillain Band influenced Deep Purple’
Life is not fair; get used to it……..
February 9th, 2009 at 12:24@53
‘The fact is S/M was a very good album’
Im not aware of any ‘facts’ to support that claim….
‘However—not fair to bash a Rainbow influenced Deep Purple album and not a Gillain Band influenced Deep Purple’
Life is not fair; get used to it……..
February 9th, 2009 at 12:25T and Crimson
your posts are too long to be read!
about ‘over the rainbow’:
MAKE A NEW RECORD WITH YOUR OWN COMPOSITIONS!!!!
February 9th, 2009 at 13:11Roberto, perhaps whats not addressed to you would likely bore you anyway. Sorry about that, but it really isn’t important anyway.
I concentrate on the facts, usually, but sometimes I’m compelled to express my opinion, since that’s at least 80% of whats going on here.
February 9th, 2009 at 15:20#54 listen to the last few purple albums—that is all the evidence and facts I need.
February 9th, 2009 at 16:27#55 battle of the wits and their right to post it–your right to scroll down past it and not read it.
@57 Your getting ‘evidence’ and ‘facts’ mixed up with your ‘opinions’…………
“We must never assume that which is incapable of proof.”
February 9th, 2009 at 17:07Some could say the current DP lineup is a Purple cover band. Here in the US, they do not play any of their new stuff. Most live material is Machine Head, and Mark II material. The major musicians, Lord and Blackmore are gone. It is more a Gillan band. Over The Rainbow is the same as Purple now.
February 10th, 2009 at 03:14Okay, enough said.
February 10th, 2009 at 06:27james jay:
In correction on your band description: If you are talking influence, then it would be safer to say Purple are now a Steve Morse Band influenced Deep Purple. He is the guy that was chosen and that revitalized this band. He is an example of how Osama’s Stimulus Package should work, but unfortunately won’t.
Fortunately for Purple they chose Steve Morse over NoBama……
Maybe I’m A Leo:
I live here in the US. Overall you are correct regarding what is played on the Radio. But, that has nothing to do with the band, nor it’s quality of music. It’s the nature of the industry and the politics and the Promoters. The same would go for other Greats such as Black Sabbath. When was the last time you heard a Sabbath tune other than Iron Man, Warpigs or Paranoid? They NEVER play any Dio Era Sabbath. Are you telling me that constitutes that line-up as a Cover Band because the shitty radio stations don’t acknowledge that era?
That’s how you compare Apples with Apples……”Over the Rainbow”?
Nice try..
Cheers
February 10th, 2009 at 15:07In 2004 I went 10 minutes up the freeway and caught them, it was an 18,000 sell out! All depends on where you are in the US and how long it’s been since they came to town… it had been 19 years.(thank god for airplanes)
February 10th, 2009 at 15:37#62 I would pick a booger before NoBama. You could be right on the Morse influenced DP……never -the -less I stand by S/M–well put together album even though it has it’s R-bow influence.
February 10th, 2009 at 16:39#But where are the clowns?
February 10th, 2009 at 17:28Quick, send in the clowns.#
Fortunately here in Minnesota we can regularly hear “Neon Knights” and “Heaven And Hell!” As far as DEEP PURPLE all we get is: “Hush,” “Smoke On The Water,” “Lazy,” “Highway Star,” “Space Truckin’,” and “Woman From Tokayo!”
February 10th, 2009 at 17:50james jay:
Now that Obama is Prez, I believe it is no longer proper to use the word ‘Booger’….also, Spade, Spook, Coon, Cotton Picker, etc…..thanks for helping to vote him in.
Don’t worry. I am totally confident that he will prove to be quite the ‘Booger’ in a very short period of time….Trust me.
As for S&M, I agree that it is a good album. Never suggested otherwise. And it does have more of Rainbow appeal that of a Purple appeal. That is what happens when there is a New person in the line-up. Depending on their prior existence will reflect the influence of that individual. For my taste, JLT’s influence didn’t cut it for me. Not that it was bad, but I’d rather see Gillan there than anyone. Again, that being said, had he stayed on and done some more albums, I’m sure he would have grown on me. I respect every MK and as I stated in another blog….Each Mk as the years have gone on could have been the last. So I enjoy them all. Even S&M, which is probably at the bottom of my Purple List, but I’m glad it exists. It’s part of the Purple Legacy, and I play it plenty…..
SEVEN-47:
You are one of the few and lucky ones. Very few places across the US play that stuff. I lived in South and Central Florida for 50 years. It wasn’t played there. I now live in Middle Tennessee just north of Nashville. They don’t play it here. I travel quite a bit. I have yet to here it anywhere. It is what it is.
Cheers
February 10th, 2009 at 19:09SEVEN-47:
Also, as far as the Purple tunes you listed. That is all that is played here too. The same for my prior residences. Those are the staple tunes that get Air Play and that is why they will always include them in the Set List.
The days of Album Rock Days are over and now all you get are the known charted tunes on the radio. Over and Over and Over…..
Cheers
February 10th, 2009 at 19:14Zero the Hero:
February 10th, 2009 at 19:45I heard Changes off Sabbath Vol.4 last night.
I would like a lot to have a list of deep purple shows with more people watching them(excluding festivals)…
February 10th, 2009 at 20:46could someone help?
I think theri record is iowa foxfest 2005 usa with 100000 people watching them…
Maybe I’m A Leo:
Yes, you will hear a couple of irregulars, but always from the OZZY Years…..He is a Household name now. If Sabbath ever puts out a new record with OZZY, you bet your ass they will play a cut from it on US Radio. They never play any of the 3 New Tunes from ‘Heaven and Hell’ which were included on the “Black Sabbath, the Dio Years”.
Another example….
Cheers
February 10th, 2009 at 21:11@ 70
You say “excluding festivals” then you mention the “fox fest.” You can’t count them out and in at the same time, if you’re counting them out.
Just curious though, both the France festival in 2005 and the Live 8 appearances were pretty big. Otherwise they don’t get that big, so why not include festivals, although you already did, one.
February 11th, 2009 at 06:01ok including festivals but only when deep purple are headliners…
February 11th, 2009 at 12:01so: could someone help?
thanks
#67 I never voted for the current prez—i am confident half of his colors will shine through and all will be $h*t in a handbasket. As far as JLT—I am a bigger fan of Gillian—especially his early Gillian Band work. However, I fail to see the JLT bashing—he has a good voice and seems like a straight shooter. In addition—it is not okay to say spook etc…feel free to call me cracker though. thanks
February 11th, 2009 at 17:04Joe ‘Lipstick’ Turner bashing??………… isnt it a national pastime, part of the constitution?
They should have it in the Olympics.
February 11th, 2009 at 17:23#75 The cut runs deep.
February 11th, 2009 at 17:35@76 “Not every ass has long ears”
February 12th, 2009 at 09:00#77 do not let your ass overload your mouth.
February 12th, 2009 at 12:49@78 Then you must practice what you preach
February 12th, 2009 at 15:11@ 74
“Gillian?” Right, a bigger fan of him than JLT?
Well, maybe it’s easier to spell “Joe Lynn Turner” than “Ian Gillan.”
I don’t recall more than one “i” in his last name.
Whats that all about?
It looks suspect to me… trying to tell us something, or just a double typo? Or perhaps an ‘average’ fan who never paid attention to such details? You tell me…
Turner is not a bad singer imo, just a sophomoric writer and terrible performer.(I happen to rate live work more than studio work… sure, the songs come first, but performing them is what it’s really all about, just ask them…) I’d like to concentrate on the music here too, but it’s nearly impossible to take seriously because it was second fiddle to his antics.
February 12th, 2009 at 16:09Hence my term….”Don’t let your Alligator Mouth, overload your Hummingbird Asshole.”
I don’t recall Bashing JLT. Since when is constructive criticism now Bashing. I give him total credit for his talent. It’s his attitude and stage presence I do not enjoy. Now, if you have no problem with his style fronting Purple Live, that’s your opinion. Just as with Glenn Hughes Live. I totally Love his voice. BUT, his overwhelming amount of High Pitched Squeals eventually is like fingernails on a chalkboard….TO ME. Just my taste and that’s it.
Cheers
February 12th, 2009 at 16:12there’s a fire in the basement. never knew #80 was a Harvard Grad. You are right–i am just a fan–not an expert in Purplism. #81 I agree
February 12th, 2009 at 21:31with your second paragraph—the first paragraph will be nipped in the bud. thanks.
Since when do you have to be ‘Harvard Grad’ like Bruce Payne, in order to spell a six word name that’s been read countless times over so many years, I’m sure?
It just seems like you’re forcing the JLT issue without any educated approach at all, when you spell his name that way… it really is suspect.
Either that or it was a typical dig… not even an original one, if so…
Say what you will concerning him, but it keeps getting less reliable as you go, that’s all.
February 12th, 2009 at 22:37Nipped in the bud? Must mean the 2 orifices have been slammed shut or they reversed. That happens. It’s called oral constipation……Take a good dose of JLT and call Ritchie in the morning……..That should clear up the Bowel Back-up……LOL.
Cheers
February 13th, 2009 at 00:29#83 #84 put down your Billy Beer and take your hand out the front of your pants. My opinion is JLT is a good singer and S/M was a good album. Was it classic Purple like “Machine Head” “In Rock” “Fireball” —NO. My opinion is S/M is better than any DP album after the 1984 re-union. Just my opinion. As far as Gill-I-an—WTF. The late night ramblings #83 posts should also be proof read. Do not $h*t where you eat.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:30Youve change from a ‘certainty’, a ‘fact’…..
To an opinion……
Do you have issues, or social difficulties you need to get off your chest?
February 13th, 2009 at 15:38Yes–Some on this site think their opinions are statements. We are all just making our opinions based on our individual tastes in music. I am just a regular dude that appreciates the music produced by the DP family tree. Whether I spell Gillan G-i-l-l-I-a-n does not make me less of a fan. Thanks Doctor–I feel better now–checks in the mail.
February 13th, 2009 at 15:54Changed your tune?
Who cares…………..
February 13th, 2009 at 17:15#88 no…..re-read above Jethro.
February 13th, 2009 at 17:59@85-87
I know you posted those before #21 in this link, so I’m just reaffirming that it’s “under the bridge” as you say, and I’m making sure it stays that way… it’s all good in the Purple brotherhood.(but please refer to the blog vets by either their screen names or their real names, if you know them… @89, it would be appreciated, and keep the tone from further shrill, believe me, it’s just a suggestion, but a well experienced one)
http://www.thehighwaystar.com/news/2009/02/12/the-effigy-of-rainbow/
February 14th, 2009 at 09:01T
27
I totally disagree with you
The best albums post reunion are :the battle rages on and purpendicular: two masterpieces even if very different…
I think too that ‘the battle…’ is as good as ‘machine head’
February 14th, 2009 at 18:37TBRO?
I guess I pick up a point or two where I left off earlier in this blog.
How’s that? In the sound department it’s light years behind MH.
How nobody seems to notice how terribly mixed and produced that album is, really puzzles me, it sounds like utter shit!
I can put up with all the other factors that weight it down as well… the cut and paste factor, the Rainbow vibe with rehashing things like ‘Stranded’ and ‘Strange Ways’ to come up with ‘Anya’ and the Green Onions and Peter Gun based inclusions, but the sound is criminal suspect.
An absolute mess! If only they hadn’t hired Pununzio, it was an obvious mistake, no different from their decision to hire Nick Davis on ‘Nobody’s Perfect’ an equally poor idea.
Notice by the time they embarked on the CHOHW project, how they hugely made up for it by hiring a fabulous man, Pat Regan, now there is a great set of ears… too bad Blackmore stole him and his talent got wasted trying to cut and paste synthetic BN together, even resorting to helping out instrumentally.
TBRO, not my cup of antifreeze. Good songs most of them, but hearing them is difficult under the synthed out schlock. It takes away many points indeed, for me anyway… no bottem and at all, very disappointing from the first listen on… it barely made me air punch my fist, even in good loyal spirit for DP. That’s why I’m really glad things changed so drastically after that, it was overdue for me, someone who always hoped they’d somehow adapt a modern approach and allow Gillan and especially Glover’s more eclectic ideas.
It was a crowning move in that department for me, a slightly younger fan who missed the 68 to 76 boat by a couple of years as far as catching them in their prime goes… I knew they had contemporary bones in them all along, Blackmore just couldn’t hang with that, he had his own vision of what is contemporary, and it had little to do with variety and modern ideas, in fact very little if at all, he was concerned about image and preserving his own art through rehash.(however good he is, DP are an evolving entity for the better of their and our’s sanity)
I think the biggest thing Ritchie and JLT have in common might be a mutual respect for hair loss, and luckily they’re both musicians, so they have two things in common, but the hair thing is obviously where they best go together, lol! (sure can’t be counted out anyway)
The music might be good, but the performing was another story, something that really helped ultimately end it.(the crowds were their last hope, and they felt let down by such a spectacle)
Someone once referred to them as ‘the wiggies’ but it wasn’t me, I just found that to be funny stuff.
Too bad TBRO had no better effect, it started out with the JLT factor and couldn’t quite be repaired properly.(most don’t even know that they only presented the songs to the label that Joe helped write… the rest that wound up on the album contained no vocals by him to begin with, they were demo backing tracks that Gillan and Glover wrote the lyrics to after his return. They did not present an entire album to BMG, it was more like a progress report and the label wasn’t happy with what they heard at all, they thought it was blashpemous. True story for all those who don’t know how it actually went down) Like Ian is really going to re write a whole album worth of lyrics and come away proud to have done so… hardly.(he knew he would be replacing some vocals, but I doubt he would have been keen on doing so with an entire albums worth, he does have some artistical integrity, believe it or not)
You can refer to them now as “Deep Purple Light” for all I care, but it’s no lighter than the Gillan and JLT sings Rainbow style Purple, so don’t let line up changes completely fool you. I highly disagree that S&M contains anymore heaviness than DP do now… I’d bet my entire inventory that I’m right, try scientifically proving it, instead of opining it “T.” (not going to happen)
February 14th, 2009 at 21:14I’ll address the song comparisons you made, next.
#27 agreed–i like S/M—after Perfect Strangers– since 1984 reunion. Although it is geared towards the Rainbow sound and glossy production. JLT has a right to make a living– wether he sponges off the past R-bow days is his business. We can judge it’s content when it hits the shelf.
February 14th, 2009 at 22:11I distinctly remember T writing a very good post including his rating of the reunion era Purple albums, and he rated Purpendicular above them all.
Am I mistaken? S&M was rated below it as the best of the Blackmore included albums, so what’s this about now with S&M being the “best of the reunion era?”
I’d just like some clarification, as I could be wrong, but he did rate Purpendicular higher as far as I remember.(oops, do I have to dredge it up and link it here if possible?)
The two are light years apart in the overall Purple vernacular, neither are what you’d call orthodox Purple albums, both were departures, and both were good, but one proved to have extended potential concerning the line up. Unless that’s just a business call, as I’m sure that excuse would spring to some minds, but it has no substance because it’s another bias guess.(just saving some argument there)lol!
February 15th, 2009 at 08:51@93
Why isn’t it our business too?
I’d like to know how he would be eating so well if it weren’t?
Most people don’t buy tickets and records they aren’t interested in, so support is vital and inevitable… they make it our business.
I’m really all for OTR, but it’s up to Joe and them to really pull it off properly, or leave it a one off. I’m sure they’ll decide once they have both rehearsed performed together, and I hope they can handle Tony’s discipline, if so, it could be great, he is by far the best of the five musicians imo, and he has a work ethic to reckon with.
It will either be a revival of some kind, or written off as a trial and error failure. Either way, I’m sure they’re excited to see what unfolds, I know I am.(I’m mostly curious about the chemistry between Tony and Jurgen, as Tony and Ritchie never hit it off too well in the first place, but he speaks German fluently, so it might do wonders for their vibes)
As soon as they return to their respective homes from the tour, I’ll give Bobby a call and see for myself just how it went for them, he doesn’t beat around the bush, believe me.
February 15th, 2009 at 09:04I RATE AN ALBUM FOR ITS SONGS AND NOT FOR ITS MIXING…
February 15th, 2009 at 15:06OTR is like the US Stimulus Plan. Just throw it out there and we’ll see if it works, without really getting together and forming some proper groundwork, such as some Original Material to see if they will even be a creative force together, and to see if there is any cohesiveness, other than Relying on what existed from the past with nothing new to inspire both, Players and Followers….
Cheers
February 15th, 2009 at 16:53@96
Well, I agree there are a few good songs there, but don’t try and tell me they weren’t completely destroyed by the production, because they were…
I suppose you could also say that if it weren’t mixed at all that it would be any better? I think it suffers massively in that department.
Cop outs are fine and all, but… that was just a silly blanket statement to try and discredit my rating.(which I’ll be the first to admit I can be pretty bad at in most cases, as I’m of a different writing approach altogether, rating something is 100% opinion based and I concentrate much more on facts and history surrounding the music, if I didn’t like something about it, I wouldn’t bother rating it at all)lol!
February 15th, 2009 at 20:51I love the battle rages on compositions (this is the most important part of an album for me…than the playing and at the end the mixing/production)..that is enough for me…
February 15th, 2009 at 22:41So you like the sound of crap attached to a good song? It ruins it beyond repair for me, good thing there is always a tour to make up for it, and in that case, we all know it was pretty damn good.
Back to the songs and how much JLT had to do with them… well, they demo’d Ramshackle Man with Gillan, if anyone think Turner had a crack at the backing track, think again, in fact, just try and fathom it… good luck. He simply never recorded it. Not to mention several of the other tracks, as I mentioned before.
February 16th, 2009 at 05:46Okay T, adjust your eyes, @31
See below @50 concerning formats.
“Call Of The Wild” and “HLW” ???
Although the latter I blame Gillan for even trying to mitigate, the overall blame concerning the two goes back to Blackmore’s same guilt for trying to Rainbowize an already established Deep Purple.
I have to say I’m not a fan of either track, especially Blackmore’s “juvenile” guitar work on them, as you so wisely put it. “COTW” does have a nice guitar outro, but come on, it’s very brief… but lets talk about the vocals on that one, I think Gillan lowered himself to Blackmore’s liking very well there, lol, speaking of course of the lyrics, but the vocal delivery is excellent imo, and the only thing the song had going for it, so he wins there again by making a grand effort to save a piece of music that’s much better suited for the likes of Hall and Oates.(the worldwide chart toppers of the previous year) So those two small examples don’t measure up to comparison with “S&M” for me, and I still never once claimed it is a bad record, just not up to the DP standard, and we both have to admit that there are a few in the catalog that don’t, and apparently for some, those few vary quite considerably. Right?
“S&M” would be one of them for me, not for you… fair enough? You prove nothing there, to me anyway… nice try though, I do understand why you do this, lol! I take some responsibility there too, as I am the one who you were replying to.
I think “HOP” is bunk, especially for an album opener, it’s nothing but homage to Blackmore with Bradford’s ‘All Night Longish’ riff, but like “COTW” it has a nice resonating outro, this time from Gillan’s harp.
“IGYN” is another story, a fine song it was when it went by the working title of “Up The wall” which if you haven’t heard, you need to, because most of their performances of it were blistering, especially John’s solo which was reduced to almost nothing by Airey when they finally recorded it, but notice how Joh got a writing credit, his influence on the track is felt by and large, and then it as completely mucked up by Bradford’s inclusion of the R&B title and chorus. Talk about heavy, “Up The Wall” was monstrous indeed.
I still rotate “S&M” sometimes, and I have my favorites on the album, “Breakfest In Bed” is one of them with John’s obvious nod to the Sherbs in the intro… and heavy it might be, but it’s a light heavy, okay?
Certain aspects of the current line up have produced the same weight, but most of it even heavier to my ears, if that’s okay with you, as it is not a matter of fact, but opinion and taste as to what we hear.
JLT is the ‘light’ factor culprit, and so is Steve Morse and Don Airey, to a degree, but nowhere near as far as I’m concerned, remember, no facts here, as I can assure you there aren’t many in music, but there are in terms of historical aspects and events surrounding it.
“Picture Of Innocence” which if you had noticed contains the singular word “Picture” which indicates a lack of attention to detail, which of course shows how little one must have listened, and might deduct from their rating of it, was more ‘blues tinged’ than “Silver Tongue” and I don’t see how you missed that, is a brilliant song man, what’s up? From it’s Heavy underlying bottom end organ growls, the the fat chugging guitar rhythm parts and Gillan’s mad chorus about a girl that sued Bruce Payne for sexual harassment… it’s a masterstroke! By far the most accessible track on the “Bananas” without a doubt, it’s just too bad these things aren’t given their due credit.
“Silver Tongue” too is a stark raving romper, and although a tad commercial and derivative, still equals the heaviness of tracks like “The Cut Runs Deep” just listen to the precise, loose yet tight drum parts alone and one can hear that much…. killer stuff and equally as good or better, too imo.
I don’t agree with you, but that’s okay, right? The songwriting is sometimes suspect now, but it was on “S&M” too, and I do mean in the entire lyric department, sans “KOD” which JLT had zreo to do with writing, it’s Roger’s, and that either helps present a heaviness or it doesn’t, and you yourself even said who is the right man for that job.
The only song on “S&M” that matches a track like “ROTD’ in many aspects, including the whole ‘heaviness’ thing you’re on about, which to me is a very limited point, would have to be “Wicked Ways” but there goes JLT again with his tendency to compete with Lou Graham for who’s been a virgin the longest. Now you can say he outshines Gillan on that track compared to “ROTD” but you would again be wide open for debate, very wide indeed.
You also prove nothing by saying Lord and Paice refused to do anything, in fact Lord played very well on the album, his solos were not written by anybody but he himself. And Paice was humiliated by Blackmore’s suggestion to record with a click track, although he did do it, even on “THOBL” he wasn’t happy with Blackmore’s opinion that he is not a good time keeper, a flat out bollocks statement, by which he seemed as usual to just be trying to get his way… he still does it to Candice too, she tells him so. Suggesting it was hailed as the next Rainbow album is nothing but Blackmore’s own intentional outcome, obviously… are you getting it yet?
I haven’t talked to one pro drummer that was happy with the non existent Paice on “S&M” and btw, I run a “Drummers Column” with feature articles on drummers @ the DP Hub, so I’m no stranger to the instrument and it’s players.
I do agree about “TUL” and his performance on the latter half of it, outstanding stuff there, but oh yeah, that was a better album altogether for my taste, as I mentioned, so it’s really neither here nor there, as both were heavily influenced by Roger working on them.(I mentioned Ian went on vacation, well he did the same thing after most of the backing tracks for “THOBL” were done, the hand clapping and beat tracking for “TUL” were handled by Rog, sorry for the confusion, but it’s true)
If “S&M’ charted higher, it did not sell more in it’s first year on the shelf, “THOBL” sold over 900,000 in the US alone it’s first year, and I possess the bio sheet for “TBRO” right here in my office to prove that much, which was obtained by the rep for Giant Records in June of 1993.
I don’t agree about JLT being just as Purple as Evans, you’re treading on sacred territory there and I hope to one day interview that man, because he lives 75 miles from me and I aim to catch up with him, and this is a fact, believe me or not, I know where he is, something many want to know… but I also don’t find Coverdale to be much fitting either, a great singer in his own right, but as good as they were with him, it’s as less Purple as JLT imo. I’m happy he found his feet in WS.
I do appreciate them and acknowledge their talents though, but it’s really about overall integrity to the legacy for me, and that’s my point, so I take nothing away at all there… it’s all good, some just not as good as others, depending on who you’re talking to and how much they have heard in order to opine at all. No, I don’t mean to discredit anyone’s opinion, I just know what I know and throw it out the door anytime I’m “proven” wrong, if it means enough in order to.
T, I’m not the best critic on the planet, in fact far from it… you have me beat there, hook line and sinker, with your very articulated accounting. I mentioned in another blog though, that you once rated the reunion era albums very well, but you’re now saying that “S&M” is the best of the reunion era, when I swear in that great post, that you rated “Purpendicular” above it as the best of them since regrouping in 84, correct me if I’m wrong, but be honest, it’s here somewhere and I can find it if I have to… answer please… lol!
@50
Anyone can term it how they like, but it’s obvious that I’m speaking of the ‘AOR’ factor in one of it’s cheesiest meanings, you know, ala Journey and the like! Take that for what it is, I’m sure many reading this know exactly what I’m talking about and there is no reason to dodge that, it’s a reasonable analogy.
I don’t think even though you’re right about it’s original meaning, that anyone should follow a format that they helped define, and that is the same attitude Ian Gillan seems to have concerning it, but not Blackmore because his heart was caught up in it with latter day Rainbow and he tried to impress upon Purple and their huge fan base with it = bad idea judging by the events that followed and lead up to today, where they’ve been back to business as it were, and well received by the fans… you don’t hear anyone trying to lynch anyone in the camp anymore and try to sell the fans a watered down version of Rainbow with Gillan out front, and take it a step further by replacing him with you know who. A pop metal hair band they are not, and that’s the bottom line for me… I should have worded it differently I see, less rebuttal and defense might have followed, I apologize for that. I wasn’t trying to sway your definition of the term “AOR.” I was just trying to explain how they used it, so long after having almost singlehandedly created it.
I happen to know a thing or two about the recording industry and how a lot of things work in painstaking but inevitable marketing, I spent five years managing a famous retail record outlet, in charge of both imports and concert ticket sales, and headed up every meet and greet for those five years, and that was a humbling experience to say the least, riding in lomos with people like Stevie Wonder and dining with the likes of Dio, Priest, Maiden, the lot of ’em. I used to spend the whole afternoon with them and still stay in touch with many artists and label reps to this day.
This not only had me in touch with concert promoters, but everyone down to stage managers, the whole nine… which is where I got my connections and why I can still do it on the internet.
I’m not trying to toot my own horn or anything, but I do get around, and I sometimes am appalled by people, usually very young people on the net who claim to know more because they type a phrase into a search engine in order to get their knowledge. I have lived it for over 25 years.
“AOR” is in fact now classic rock as you say, so I’m plenty aware that the format has it’s morphing factors. However, DP are not classic rock either, they’re an ongoing rock entity by their own admission and declaration, and like to think of it as ‘ard rock, not ‘eavy metul, and certainly not classic rock, AOR, pop or pop-metal.
This is all regardless of the terms that have been fitted them by journalists, media groups, radio station formats, etc… forget I said it and ask one or two of them about it, or even easier, read some interviews where they’ve expressed it time and again, even on film.
(they sometimes resort to using such terms because they have to, but don’t let it fool)
Giving you some background on my position as a fan and former industry slave, I think can help show where I’m coming from.(nothing more)
Have a listen to a friend of mines interview with Ian Paice at Abbey Road studios in London, as my local classic rock station is world renowned, and I do work on their suggestion panel. I know much about the format and the fact that media groups own the stations and control the program directing, and their main objective is “familiarity” I don’t need to research it, I involve myself in it at the station.
http://kgon.radiotown.com/KGONCasts/IanPaicewIris.mp3
If that link doesn’t work, hell, check a bunch of here work along with it here:
http://www.kgon.com/pages/399499.php
As I said, I’m no stranger, I work hard for nothing but soul satisfaction, and my opinion is based on my work.
The mic is all your, again.
February 16th, 2009 at 08:11My bad for the odd typo or two, that was a rather long effort, but I did get “Picture Of Innocence” right, lol.
February 16th, 2009 at 09:49@101
the longest post ever seen…
February 16th, 2009 at 14:09What’s the matter, can’t handle it?
February 16th, 2009 at 19:30To elaborate on “COTW” being better suited for Hall and Oates, the track “Out Of Touch Out Of Time” or whatever it’s called, is what I instantly thought of when I heard it, because of Gillan’s use of those two separate phrases in the chorus, one of those little complimenting nods, for sure. But it still didn’t work, he is not a pop or soul singer/songwriter.
February 16th, 2009 at 19:36Ahh…..These Russians cheat wherever they can,just look at sports! They have a very strange perception of “fair play” and if taking illegal drugs,steriods and EPO were an actual sport….they would be world champions indefinitely! ROCK ON!
February 16th, 2009 at 23:58I have to correct myself, sort of… I did say it was a bad album, but remember, I meant it in the Purple context, any Purple album is a good album, so I don’t want to be misunderstood concerning that. It’s just that some are of course better than others, but placing “S&M” up there with the best is just a rare preference. Different strokes.
February 17th, 2009 at 06:57