Posted by Nick on Sunday, December 1st, 2024,
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Hear hear Ritchie, just a ‘slight’ difference to days gone by to todays drivel. Thanks for posting & now we can add Ritchie to the ‘Grumpy Old Mens’ club, officially. Talking of Grumpy Old Men I would love to see Rick Wakeman interview Ritchie, there would be plenty of ‘humour’ in that no doubt. Cheers.
Ritchie’s right, of course. But the blessing is that most of us were around when rock ruled. It was organic, mostly melodic and fresh. The thing is, it hasn’t completely died by any means. And because it’s been recorded, it will forevermore be around at the touch of a button or click of a mouse.
I don’t listen to classic rock on the radio – not only because of the incessant commercials – but because I don’t like to hear something so often than I become sick of it. It’s nice to be able to hear something anew that you haven’t heard in years or decades. Another way of enjoying the older music is to listen to deeper cuts on old albums or to some of the artists you didn’t pay as much attention to back in the day.
Like Ritchie, I think Rock’n’Roll was best in the 14-1500s, when those Fenders and Gibsons rang true and clear through the vast castle structures and peasants would – smallpox and the plague allowing – camp out for those love & peace festivals. Sooooo organic.
Well, there you have it, I already wrote months ago that Autumn likes Taylor. All-American girl then.
I think if you think of music as an art and you bring back some the great artists from the dead and show them what is called art nowadays they would say the same.
Music is tool for our hearing and seeing senses and that is it.
Now my problem lies with the fact that a musician has to play instruments of music but nowadays it the size of human assets that you are born with can sometimes make you the best musician. Now what has this got to do with music. I think that is a better approach.
Peace ✌️
I have this dream, that whilst Ritchie smoulders in his subterranean bar akin to some dormant volcano, he’s secretly recording one last rock album… one for the ages, with his influences laid bare… I’d like (nay) love that… you never know, one or two might make a radio playlist somewhere… that or he’s guessing on the next Taylor Swift single… actually – rather bizarrely I’d love that lol. Maybe she’ll cover High Ball Shooter ? Yeah I’m dreaming… ahem.
Back to reality, I’m enjoying hearing Ritchie’s tales… Clapton and Cream getting regular high praise… and why not.
Ouch, AndreA, I have a very distinct memory from ‘Hannibal’ of the Italian punishment for treason being quite severe, even drastic to the unaccustomed eye!
I really feel sorry for the kids of today , they have got nothing decent to listen to …I utterly despair.
Even the utter garbage that comes out today is just recycled samples from 80s etc
Ritchie is spot on …as usual !
One of my favourite things to do of an evening is to go onto You Tube and discover hidden gems from bygone days …I’ve recently discovered Curved Air ….don’t know a thing about them except, there is some sort of connection with Stewart Copeland from The Police .
This leeds down to bands like Family, Pretty Things etc …how lucky and blessed are my!?
In fact thanks To Gillans top bands ..I’ve discovered Susie Q by CCR …fabulous !
Meanwhile , today’s kids sample another Taylor Swift remix 😫
Bring on the band of angels from the great divide
I’ll never get to heaven so take me for a ride
Fruit on the tree is shaking, my mind is in a daze
I just want a taste of your love
And learn your wicked ways
… or, banish the thought, show something like patience for the processing of her queries! That is highly unfair and discouraging, perpetuating archaic male structures, you have to do better!
She’s a woman after all. Everything is all at once of equal unfiltered importance to her. 😇
How the female mind works, in all its bewildering wonderment:
Old people tend to think the world ends with them … ask me, I should know.
Of course that’s nonsense. Just because Ritchie thinks there’s no more decent music around it doesn’t have to be true. In fact there are LOTS of brillant musicians out there to discover. And you know what? It ist easier than ever before! You check them out on youtune or on spotiy and if you find something you like buy it on cd or vinyl. Yeah, vinyl is back aagain big time too.
Back when I was young most kids would listen to the Bay City Rollers or stuff like that. It’s not that they were all into Yes or DP or Weather Report! There has always been a majority that would just listen to mainstream radio and him along to it. While others would dig deeper. And those kids are around today as well. And there is plenty of wonderful musicof all kinds to explore. Just the other day I attended a show of an US band in a club whose members were into Frankie Miller and they even played two of his songs. And that ist just for the classic rock segment… Blues, Jazz, Rock’n’Roll ..you name it. It is out there and more than ever. And yes, there is no new Wish you were here, Led Zep IV, In Rock or Sticky Fingers. You know what? Because it has been done already.
No, he’s not, he’s a boring old fart/curmudgeon just like our dads were when judging our music. Older generations shouldn’t pass judgement on the music of younger generations, period, leave it to them.
And Ritchie’s music taste was – except for a very short period in the late 60s/early 70s when he was in tune with musical fashion for once – always very conservative, bordering on the reactionary. I mean just look at him, devoting the last three decades of his musical life to reenacting and cosplaying late medieval music. If that isn’t regression, I don’t know what is.
The rock and pop bands he has named over the years as finding his fancy have all been safe, established and middle of the road: ABBA, Neil Diamond, Bob Dylan (musically, Dylan did last something daring when he strapped on an electric guitar in the early 60s and shocked folkies), Blondie, Asia, Jethro Tull, Jimi Hendrix, Cream, Johnny Winter …
The only time I have heard him mention liking something quirky/off the wall was when he professed his love for Carmen in his by now legendary Sept 1978 Guitar Player interview:
“Are there any other projects you’re involved in?”
“I haven’t wanted to do any other projects, but I’d like to do some work with the band Carmen. It’s flamenco style, but on rock. It’d be interesting to throw some wild solos in their stuff. I don’t get inspired by many bands, but they’re really interesting.”
And that band was indeed, in 1973, light years ahead of its time and absolutely categorization-defying. But Blackmore lauded them in an interview five years later (by which time Carmen had long split up, their music having met mostly bewilderment), his musical tastes were never especially current or cutting edge.
In line with the great words of our beloved Martin Luther king.
I have a dream that one day true musician will not be judged by the colour or length of hair or by their make up or the size of their external body parts but it will be judged by their true musical and vocal skills.
Peace ✌️
Other than that I of course agree with you. Music has changed, there is a greater influence of electronic sounds (but that was started in the 70s, even the Beatles already used synthesizers on some tracks in the 60s) and technology allows even more studio wizardry, but technology plays a greater role in all aspects of our daily lives or I wouldn’t be here typing this and you wouldn’t be able to read it everywhere in the world a few seconds later. Cream and Free playing electrified blues wasn’t the same as Mississippi Delta Blues of the 20s of the last century either. And if aging baby boomers don’t like some or most of it, then that is because it is not aimed at us. As it should be.
@24
Dear Uwe!
I know I’m not nearly as intelligent, wise, clever or astute as you and the rest of the gang in here. Never have I suggested I am! 🤓
And when you all start discussing specific topics regarding basses, guitars, amplifiers, plectrums, bandages and t-shirts, yes then I do tend to zoom out a bit, and my maternal instincts kick in and I think: awww the dear boys are having fun again 🥰
Actually I was certain you all talked about Rush (I shiver in terror thinking of that voice 🫨) and in my wildest imagination I couldn’t believe Roger Glover, my bassist-hero, in any way could be related musically to that person from Rush 😲
Well, live and learn 😁
I thank you for your kindness and patience with me, and now I will study the recipe for flæskesteg, as I have never in my life prepared such a dish before! 😝
@ 26- Blackmore is right Uwe & you know it, stop trying to justify a complete load of utter bollocks. You know what he means & it’s true, simple. Cheers.
when Ritchie says that “Eric started it all” he forgets to add “but I was more fundamental than him with the masterpieces I wrote for the following generations of rock musicians and listeners!!!”
#14 Kosh
your little big dream would be fantastic if it came true, but maybe you should tell Ritchie because I don’t think he even thought about it!
#25 Max
I think Ritchie is not referring to the many talented musicians who passionately make records and sell few of them, I think he is referring to the fact that there are no longer any great bands that achieve great, great success, that reach a large global audience as happened with the groups and soloists who dominated the charts in the 60s/70s/80s
@ 26 -” No, he’s not, he’s a boring old fart/curmudgeon just like our dads were when judging our music. Older generations shouldn’t pass judgement on the music of younger generations, period, leave it to them.” People can ‘pass judgement’ if they want to, it is their right to express an opinion. We all still listened to & followed the artists we enjoyed didn’t we? “I mean just look at him, devoting the last three decades of his musical life to reenacting and cosplaying late medieval music. If that isn’t regression, I don’t know what is” Of which you support & contribute to him continuing on being ‘regressive’. Who is the one being regressive Uwe? “The rock and pop bands he has named over the years as finding his fancy have all been safe, established and middle of the road: ABBA, Neil Diamond, Bob Dylan (musically, Dylan did last something daring when he strapped on an electric guitar in the early 60s and shocked folkies), Blondie, Asia, Jethro Tull, Jimi Hendrix, Cream, Johnny Winter …” so what, your point is? Blackmore like anyone else is entitled to his opinion. There are plenty of others who comment in a very similar fashion in regards to this topic. We don’t need anyone to help us along the way, we see & hear what is out there & observe what is happening, it is the way of things unfortunately. Nothing cutting edge about it, in fact it is the opposite of that. Musical regression eh? Cheers.
I dunno Herr MacGregor, do I really listen to enough modern popular music to be able to pass informed judgement? I never listen to the radio, I don’t watch music shows on TV, a Spotify list is for me as arcane as an UFO, my iPhone has one stored song (BÖC’s Don’t Fear The Reaper, I wanted that as my ringtone, but that somehow didn’t work), I don’t buy cars that don’t feature a CD player, even my kids don’t really listen to modern pop music, when they visit us and play music from their iPhones more than 80% of it is music that is more than 20 years old, going back as far as the 60s (my daughter) or even the 20s/30s (my son with his penchant for authentic Mississippi Blues) of the last century. Yes, out of curiosity, I sometimes buy a Coldplay, Beyoncé or Taylor Swift CD, but these are in essence still traditional pop artists. The last gig I’ve been to of a (then) “contemporary” artist was Shakira with my then eleven year old daughter who wanted to see her in 2003, that seems like a long time ago (I’ll be turning grandpa soon) and Shakira is by now 47 (the gig was actually good, very hard rock-oriented and therefore going over the heads of most of the teenage girls in the audience).
So my exposure to modern pop is extremely limited and when I hear something by coincidence I mostly go, oh, how interesting, so that is how it sounds today! I realize that it is not aimed at me and don’t feel offended. I live in an essentially 70s rock bubble (the decade when I was a teenager, surprise!) with music from later eras liberally sprinkled in.
I tried to take a laissez-faire attitude like my dad did – born 1931, he liked Glenn Miller, James Last, Johnny Cash and Schlager, even 50s rock’n’roll was already beyond him. But he wouldn’t say a word if I had DP’s In Rock or Last Concert in Japan, Rainbow’s On Stage, Status Quo’s LIVE! or Judas Priest’s British Steel blaring over our living room stereo, but just sit there and read his magazine or book and sometimes even mumble something like “now that wasn’t that bad”. And he would also chauffeur me to Rainbow and Status Quo gigs when I didn’t yet have a driver’s license and patiently wait outside in the car. So I try to preserve some of that nonchalance.
He was way into his 70s when I visited him on a Sunday and he had the neighbors’ young boy in his early teens with him who was playing the most god-awful cookie-monster vocals Slipknot album over our living room stereo, trying to impress him with his freshly discovered favorite band (the kid was still learning the trumpet at the time). And my dad, who liked the kid, went along with it and so all three of us sat there listening to Slipknot (my first experience of them).
And after a while my dad deadpans to me: “That sounds like what you always used to listen to, right?” 😂 And for a second I thought about explaining the difference, but then thought better of it and just said: “Yes, kind of, very nice music.” To which the neighbors’ kid beamed: “My dad always says it’s just noise!!!” 🤣
I don’t need to knock today’s music of which I know little about to reassure me of my love for Deep Purple.
“… in my wildest imagination I couldn’t believe Roger Glover, my bassist-hero, in any way could be related musically to that person from Rush …”
Well, they just played the same type of bass for a while (actually also in the 70ies, both played Rickenbacker 4001 models) and if you were a professional bassist in the 80s/early 90s and could actually afford it, it was quite likely that you would at one point try out a Steinberger L2 just to hear what it’s like. But very few people stuck with playing them. Roger Glover especially has played many different bass types throughout his career, he was always searching for something: Fender, Rickenbacker, Gibson, Ovation, Hondo, Peavey, Steinberger, Ernie Ball Music Man, Vigier …
Other than that I’m not aware that Deep Purple’s and Rush’s paths crossed much. I do remember that in the early 80s Gary Moore with Little Ian on drums would open for Rush on US tours and that Little Ian lauded (rightfully) Neil Peart’s drumming capabilities. And Peart would later on return the favor and say Paicey was good. Which is not that surprising given that they were/are both avowed Buddy Rich fans and as such fruits swinging (pun laboriously intended) from the same tree.
Peart was never leaden or hamfisted, I liked that about him. He was a very delicate, nimble and elegant drummer, yet powerful, but not mindlessly so. Among the three Rush instrumentalists always my favorite, even ahead of Geddy Lee (for whatever reason, Alex Lifeson’s guitar playing, skillful as it was, never really spoke with me emotionally).
Like Uwe I am far from knowing an awful lot about today’s music. What I do know is: There has always been ghood music and there has always been music, that was just the flavour of the week. Something to hum along to, maybe dance to and than move on to the next big thing. (ike Bay City Rollers, Uwe. I get your drift of finding a little pleasure in acting unpredictable tastewise but that was stretching things a bitz far for my liking … not even girls that wanted to be taken serious listened to them! Sweet or Smokie was as far as you were allowed to succumb to guilty pleasures)
Fla76, yes, that may be the case but chart success is not what it’s all about. Rock music isn’t as defining for a generation as it used to be. Like Blues or Jazz for example it has now its place among music styles that will stay – but not necessarily in the charts that is.
But the albums put out today are as good as those albums in the 60s or 70s – they just don’t sell that much. Therefore the music is still there if you look for it – which Ritchie doesn’t do obviously.
My sons make me listen to a lot of music, new music as well and while one of them shares a similiar taste in many aspect the other one tends to listen to Hip Hop. I isn’t my cup of tea and never will be – but listening to Kayne West was eyeopening for me. Now here#s something really interesting! No, it is not to my tastes and no, it is not Rock music – but it sure has something to it and it may well be as new and disturbing and groundbreaking as, say, Zappa was way back when.
Fla76, you do have a point, the era of bands – a collective of like-minded musicians who all have some influence on the music being played – seems to be indeed over. (I don’t call a K-pop boy band a ‘band’ in that sense.) And it has been for a while.
The last two decades or so have very much seen the emergence of the solo artist to transport music. I think there are a couple of reasons for that:
– The creation of music these days needs less (wo)manpower. If in the 60s you wanted to play live, you needed to form a band with your buddies. But any kid today can create music via home recording, Pro Tools, drum machines, pre-recorded beats, synths, digital components and – we’re only at the beginning of this – AI without ever leaving the house of his parents. The DJ creating new music from components is an archetype of that. It’s not like this didn’t exist before – Mike Oldfield and Tom Scholz of Boston were both essentially home recorders with a high affinity for the then available technology -, but it has now become the industry standard.
– Bands are risky business and more difficult to manage + market. When a solo artist is in an artistic rut, (s)he will reinvent her-/himself, hoping to carry most of her/his bands with the change; if bands hit a creative brick wall, that often means breakup as everyone is pulling into different directions. And following a breakup, things aren’t often the same, just look at what happen artistically and commercially once the Coverdale-Sykes tandem in the Purple Family broke up. That wouldn’t have happened had John Sykes had the voice of David Coverdale or if David Coverdale been as good a guitarist as John Sykes – if their respective abilities had been joined in one person. I very much have a preference for bands over solo artists, I prefer The Beatles to anything done by George/John/Paul/Ringo solo, DP over Rainbow, Police over Sting, Cream over Eric Clapton, Genesis over Phil Collins or Peter Gabriel etc. The need to compromise and leave comfort zones as a musician in a band does more good than it does harm to the end product IMHO.
– Media interest and promotion focuses on solo artists these days. Just look at all those talent and popularity shows that never feature any bands, but individuals waiting to be “discovered”. I guess it’s part of the general sociological trend for individualism in Western Societies.
And we as baby boomers have no one else to blame but ourselves for this, it’s our children and grandchildren who have become like this in a world we shaped for them.
@ 35 – Different strokes for different folks I guess is a good way to look at it. My father being a radio announcer & managing the local record store was exposed a fair bit to the changes in music throughout the 1950’s, 60’s & into the 70’s. He was aware of the Concerto For Group & Orchestra album. He commented once that he liked what he had heard of it & was impressed by the classical elements in what he had heard in other earlier DP music. He would not have liked In Rock though for obvious reasons. However we didn’t really ever talk about the differences in music & he only ever objected to the loudness of what we sometimes played our music at. Anyway we were lucky to be around at that time & yes we probably have, well some of us, become ‘grumpy old men’ ha ha ha. Well looking at it in that humorous way & possibly at other times a little more seriously. I also regress. I hear enough of ‘modern’ music in various guises & it is much more un realistic in many ways, fake even in certain aspects. I Robot indeed. Do I live in the past, in that aspect I do indeed like so many others. We were spoilt, one way of looking at it & I am certainly glad I was part of that. I do notice a hell of a lot of comments on the ‘tube’ from younger people & they really like older popular music, much more than their own modern era. More genuine, more melodic & better delivery all round etc etc. Just not enough of them in todays world to please the masses & the record company gits. Cheers.
What happens as we come to age is that we learn what music is supposed to sound like. For me that was primarily the sounds of hard rock and dirty blues from the late 60s to ear;y 70s, Beatles, Yardbirds, Cream, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, and of course Deep Purple are ‘real’ music to my ears. It’s also natural that new forms of music generations later doesn’t register as music to our ears. Same as I listen to older forms of music. Old blues resonate with me more than 50s RnR, jazz, or classical.
Bad experiences with the other gender mostly, Karin.
No, seriously, I didn’t choose the bass, the bass chose me. When we started our first band in 1977, I still had great things in mind for me, lead guitar and lead vocals! That soon got whittled down to just lead vocals, other people wanted to play lead guitar. But no one wanted to play bass, me included. Then someone had the bright idea of saying “Well if you have your hands free while singing, Uwe, you might as well play bass!” The logic of it struck me. So we started rehearsing with me on bass and lead vocals, our band was called ‘Thunderbolt, after the WWII US fighter Republic P-47 Thunderbolt:
We covered Kiss, Ted Nugent, Ramones, Slade, Status Quo, all pretty badly, let me assure you! 😂
Then things get murky, I have no real evidence, but I believe I was the victim of a conspiracy: My band mates began to say “Uwe, you’re such a fine bass player, why not concentrate on that and we get someone else to sing?” Gullible as I am, I fell for it.
And remained a bass player ever since. I pretty quickly began to like the instrument and it’s subtle power. I smirk about guitarists that need “their” amp to do anything and if they don’t have it they’re totally helpless. Me, I intrepidly plug into anything that works and is loud enough – what comes out always sounds sufficiently “like Uwe” to me and others. I admire Steve Morse’s clever use of effects and amp settings, but to me it is like he is always walking around with an oxygen tent. I don’t need that. Bass rules.
exactly, the perception is that the “old” is REAL music, I think that even someone who doesn’t understand anything about music or has never listened to the rock of the 60s/70s/80s before (like the millions of “First listening” on YouTube) can perceive the difference between the mainstream crap of today and the mainstream rock pop of the past….the musical ability, the creativity, the harmonies are all things that can be perceived.
the paradox is that streaming has ruined the music market (after the music companies themselves ruined it in the 90s), but for a person curious to discover the masterpieces of the past, streaming is an inexhaustible mine ready to be played.
#37 Max
I agree with what you say, I’m the first (as a 49 year old) who has neither the time nor the desire to listen to new rock, hard&heavy or other music created in the last 15 years.
I hardly have time to listen to old music which is my background!
not to mention all the blues, classical, new age, world music that I listened to and discovered when I was in my early 20s….maybe I would stay listening to music until 3-4 in the morning, today I couldn’t do that anymore!
even the great Italian music of the past….unfortunately today’s Italian pop is truly a misery of people who don’t know how to write a deep song and who don’t know how to sing without rap and without autotune, banal lyrics and melodies heard thousands of times.
I leave you Three masterpieces of refined Italian pop:
Lucio Dalla “Henna” https://youtu.be/TOHiM9fHyic?si=vzbV3oY3Wv5XrpmV
(Dalla is famous for the masterpiece “Caruso” but this song is at the same level for me…when I saw him live I cried a lot from the emotion, one of my 3 best concerts ever!)
for those who want to look for the lyrics and translate them, in here I hear the truth, life and musicians (obviously old) who honor music as an art as much as most of the historic pop and rock groups of the 70s did
With everybody whining how music used to be better, I wanna join in too!!! Uwe ‘fesses up so to say.
If there is one musical trend (and it has been going on since the late 70s and gained hold over more and more popular music) I deplore, it is the decline of guitar riffs as central motifs of chart music.
Let’s get the definition straight first: To me a riff is a sequence of notes played by (mostly) the guitar that is repeated (not necessarily played incessantly, but that is ok too) in a song and tends to dominate it. It can be with vocal accompaniment (“Burn” or “Knocking On Your Back Door”) or without (SOTW, “Lazy”). Riff songs are to me to name but a few: The Stones’ Satisfaction, Iron Butterfly’s Inagaddadavida, Cream’s Sunshine Of Your Love, The Beatles’ Come Together, Zep’s Whole Lotta Love, Clapton’s Layla, Alice Cooper’s School’s Out, Stevie Wonder’s Superstition, David Bowie’s Jean Genie & Rebel Rebel, Pink Floyd’s Money, ZZ Top’s Tush, Aerosmith’s Walk This Way, Kansas’ Carry On Wayward Son, The Bee Gee’s Stayin’ Alive, Michael Jackson’s Beat It, Dire Straits’ Money For Nothing, Nirvana’s Come As You Are, Lenny Kravitz’ Are You Gonna Go My Way – as well as pretty much ANYTHING DP or Black Sabbath have ever released, there’s too many to list from those two! 😂
In terms of music history the riff is of course a Delta Blues remnant and therefore an element of African tribal music, it’s something very primal. Traditionally, Blues, rock, hard and heavy rock/heavy metal have been the homestead of the riff, but as some of the songs listed by me above show it was never restricted to just those genres. This here is a great and dominating riff:
I admit to having this very conservative reflex in me and that is the conviction that a proper rock song needs a memorable riff and that anything lacking it is somehow lesser, banal music. My wife sometimes plays something new to me she likes and I go dismissively “But there’s no riff, it’s just Akkordgeschrubbe!”Bands like U2 or Coldplay don’t write riff-oriented music. Taylor Swift wouldn’t know what a riff is and if it hit her like a freight train though she does admit a love for Def Leppard.
I blame Punk for the first pushback. Though energized and rebellious, the music of The Ramones and The Sex Pistols wasn’t riff-driven. It’s a lot easier to move bar chords around angrily than to write a good riff wile you’re rehearsing in the garage.
Since then, the 80s and all following decades have seen a progressive decline in riff-oriented music – I really miss it! Billy Corgan of Smashing Pumpkins once said that though he loves riffs he doesn’t write them because “All the great riffs on guitar have been written. Whenever you think you have come up with one yourself, you then find out that it is already somewhere on like Made In Japan!” (Corgan is a Blackmore fan.)
If I had to boil my love for DP down to one criterion only, it would be the adoration and worship of THE RIFF as the central part of a song. Ironically that is also the aspect that less hard rock-friendly folks find predictable and limiting in Purple’s and other heavy acts’ music. Whenever I play 🔥 Burn 🔥, my wife sighs “How many more times are they gonna repeat that riff in that song, we’ve heard it quite a bit now!” 🤐 As any caring husband dedicated to the development of his spouse must, I then of course admonish her “Weib, one more heresy like that out of your uncouth mouth and I will personally see to your incineration at the stake where the engulfing flames of enlightenment may guide you to passionate insight and cleansing revelation!” 🤣
Alas!, and thus ends Uwe’s heartfelt obituary for THE RIFF in contemporary music …
@43
“ Bad experiences with the other gender mostly, Karin.”
Well, you’ve been married twice, are still married to the dear Edith, so even if you hadn’t offered me the right explanation, I wouldn’t have bought into that 😄
Thanks so much for telling me the background 👍🏼
But a bit øv your band mates didn’t let you sing!
Yeah Meghan Trainor is completely right! And if I may add: ..and the drums!
Do you still perform?
John McCoy, from Gillan, does he still perform?
I really loved his way of handling the bass!
You have a style, but do you have someone, like Roger G, you lean on more than others? Or du you need to look away from other bass-player’s style to maintain your own style?
I remember Nino saying she learned to play the piano, did you also have some training, or was it more ‘learning by doing”? (Learning by ear?)
I’m so envious of you who can play any kind of instrument 😞
It really must add some extra dimension to, well everything!
Yes, I could learn now, but really haven’t got the time, and I guess it’s easier being a child to learn notes and learn to play an instrument.
In our music lessons at school I always ended up playing the two sticks to keep a rhythm 😄 that was fun, but oh to play the piano, guitar, bass, drums, violin – yeah no matter what, just to be able to express emotions and thoughts like that 😍 that must really be something 😃
I quickly mentioned 3 great songs by three great artists of the past with splendid melodies and lyrics….of course the list is longer, but Battiato and Dalla were truly two geniuses of Italian song
I agree with your point about guitar riffs, the memorable ones have been gone for decades now, as have the sales of rock bands due to the dead end that record companies have gotten themselves into.
fortunately from the 90s to today hard & heavy bands still exist and make riffs, but even if for example Gotthard made a new SOTW they would never have the success of DP and therefore it would remain in the background (with the typical phrase of the reviews “if they were in the 70s or 80s they would sell millions of copies)
in the 80s pop/new wave/dance groups wrote singles with riffs (not necessarily guitar riffs) that were spot on and distinctive, worthy of our favorite bands… I’m thinking of Inxs, Frankie goes to Hollywood, Simple minds, Tears for fears, Roxette, Culture club, Bronski beat, Talk talk, Opus, etc. etc.
Due to my daughter’s great interest in Japan and Japanese music, I myself have listened to quite a few Japanese artists.
If you can ignore the fact that you can’t understand what they sing (you can’t do that in many western groups either) you can hear a lot of good music from there.
Karin, John McCoy of formerly GILLAN did perform until a few years ago, often with the late Bernie Tormé, but, let’s be frank, he hasn’t done anything substantial since the early 80s. I don’t know why that is, I think that contrary to his visuals John is a very sensitive man and something went broke with him when that band folded, he really loved GILLAN and felt betrayed by Ian.
Lots of questions re my bass playing, where to start … The bassists of the greater Purple Family have all left their mark on me: Nick, Roger & Glenn, John Gustafson and John McCoy, Bob Daisley, Paul Martinez and Neil Murray. Also bass players such as Jim Lea (Slade), Martin Turner (Wishbone Ash), Alan Lancaster (Status Quo) or Gene Simmons of KISS and, naturally, Paul McCartney and some Jack Bruce. I can emulate what Roger does, but his style is sometimes a little to well-behaved for me, I do like upfront bass players such as Glenn Hughes, Jim Lea and Martin Turner, I’m more a melodic and harmonic player than strictly a rhythmic one. I like it when the bass carries a melody like Jim Lea does here:
I did take lessons at one point from a fusion/jazz rock bassist, he didn’t influence my bass playing much though, but he gave me a solid foundation in music theory, circle of fifths, stuff like that. I know what I’m doing on bass, sometimes even a bit too much when I overthink stuff.
I haven’t gigged in the last two years or so, but that is because I’m without a band currently. My issue is that I really don’t enjoy playing in cover (or worse still: tribute) bands all that much, but at my age (64), all people still playing in bands want to do is cover well-known material or if they actually work on own material they prefer to do it in a home recording scenario, which bores me to tears, I like the musical communication and playing off each other in a band scenario. But I miss playing and really need to get off my arse and find a new band! A New Year’s resolution perhaps? 🤗
My style is by now pretty set, I’m a 70s era bass player who is rather busy and melodic in his playing (lots of thirds) by today’s standards and has, people tell me, very much a rock groove, sometimes hilariously so. I’m not really good at playing anything else.
Oh nooo now you made me listen to Slade! 😉
Well, I do get your point regarding Lea! Didn’t he compose most of their music?
I truly hope you find another band 👏🏼
“or if they actually work on own material they prefer to do it in a home recording scenario, which bores me to tears,”
Well ok, but don’t most people need to practice a lot before presenting their new material?!
So John McCoy felt betrayed by Ian G, that’s really sad 😦
He certainly was an important member of Gillan, and yes he came around as a soft character, that was pretty obvious.
Big Ian’s position was of course that GILLAN simply wasn’t making enough money for him to keep it afloat any longer. Except for the UK (and of course that vast market Denmark, Karin!), GILLAN simply didn’t play large enough venues to make their incessant worldwide touring a money maker. Cracking America would have been crucial for that and GiLLAN didn’t have the look to grace the covers of Hit Parader and Creem – just take a look at how bands making it big in the US around that time like Loverboy, Foreigner, REO Speedwagon, Journey or Van Halen presented themselves.
Ultimately, Big Ian gave up a venture that was not making him enough or even costing him money, namely GILLAN, to take a very well-paid and risk-free job with Sabbath. That was understandable from his point of view, but so was the disappointment of the other GILLAN members who did not have that option. And I can understand Big Ian’s reticence in explaining to his GILLAN mates that he did not want to use his DP royalties to subsidize GILLAN forever.
John McCoy is a great bassist, but his appearance made it difficult for him to be integrated into any band subscribing to the “skinny rock star with long hair”-image. With his look, he would meet a lot less resistance with bands today than he did back then I believe.
@52
First of all: We LOVED Gillan in Denmark! No doubt about that 😍 ☺️
Second: of course I do also understand Ian G’s decision. My memory may play tricks with me, but wasn’t there also persistently rumours that Deep Purple and Ian G had an ongoing flirtatious talk about Ian G was allured returning to DP? And those rumours also could have been a reason why the other guys in Gillan didn’t feel confident about having their charming vocalist forever.
Third: I really enjoyed John McC’s playing 😃 he was charming and I often thought that he and Ian G was sharing equal attention. So I’m genuinely surprised JM didn’t find another band that could support his amazing charisma 😊 but maybe he needed to be in a safe spot?
Listening to Gillan and comparing them to Deep Purple, of course I can hear Gillan lacked a lot, but Gillan certainly had charms and were outgoing in their performances 🤩
Oh btw have I mentioned I am going to experience Ian Paice and Perpendicular in February? Would I prefer it was Ian G who will be doing the singing? Ohh yeah 😍 but hopefully DP returns to Denmark in ‘25.
GILLAN were lovably underground, neither Rainbow nor Whitesnake were that ever. But I think GILLAN’s rawer sound cost them market penetration in the US, people there didn’t know what quite to make of them.
I hear another band in this, do you know who they were influenced by here?
(And if you dare say EP, I’ll find you and pour iced water over your sorry head 😄) (no of course I won’t!)
Janbl @49, I liked those links you posted of Japanese bands, that was good Power Pop and Melodic Metal and Lovebites obviously owe more than their name to Judas Priest! I don’t speak Japanese either, but I like the way it sounds when it is sung. Another positive thing is that these were all real bands playing live, not just K-Pop type boy bands miming to pre-recorded music.
Frater @55: I hear you, danke, but I chronically mess up with were/where/we’re or it’s/its and too/to all to(o) often to(o)! 😂
Karin, Colin Towns never writes something bad and ‘Long Gone’ is pleasant enough, but is sounds a bit forced to me, especially in the context of an album as dark, angry and frankly dejected as Magic: “Let’s have a positive, commercial tune here …”. The structure – a straight eights romps with a simplistic keyboard riff and lots of major chords reminds me a bit of this here
but I actually prefer what Legs Diamond did. It’s GILLAN’s attempt at Power Pop/AOR, but I think that genre is often handled better by American (even if Loverboy are Canadian, Rick Springfield Australian and Foreigner part-British!) acts.
@57
Loverboy’s ‘Working for the weekend’ isn’t that bad, but oh they ought to have a stronger vocal! Then it would have been really neat 🥰
Autograph – is it Mutt Lange who produced? Sounds a lot like Def Leopard 😊 oh can see it’s Neil Kernon, well ok ☺️
KISS – oh man 😂 take away Gene’s tongue, what’s really left 😄
Foreigner ain’t half bad ☺️, I’ve actually never seen them before, in a video I mean. The vocalist has a pretty decent voice, but in my head I keep on hearing: “I wanna know what love is” – and that song is too cheesy 😆
Oh I know Mammoth! Didn’t know John M was a part of that.
He is really something 👍🏼 love his bass line 😌
Is he on the backing vocals?
He is a musician I would have liked to had a more prominent band. He is a very nice bassist 😊
Shamefully, I double-linked KISS @57, but forgot the eternal Australian heart-throb Rick S as an example of a Power Pop romp in eights and loads of major power chords …
As far as I know, John McCoy never sang a note anyway.
Autograph wasn’t produced by Mutt Lange, but they sure wanted to sound that way! 😂
There was a time in the 80s when Lou Gramm was perceived as the benchmark of AOR singing, able to go really high, but still sound gritty and not like a woman, but not too distorted and screams either. His voice was no doubt on Ritchie’s mind when he severed ties with RJD and he eventually found Joe Lynn Turner as an approximation. Pete Goalby of Trapeze/almost Rainbow/Uriah Heep was an unabashed Lou Gramm fan too.
Stevie Nicks can of course sing, she’s just not very variable with her nasal delivery somewhere between rock, folk and country. But it doesn’t matter, her voice is charming and she’s Stevie Nicks after all. Fleetwood Mac were a musically interesting band (not just for the romantic drama) and had three strong lead singers and songwriters with Lindsey, Christine and Stevie, yet managed an immediately identifiable group sound, no mean feat. I’ve seen them live twice, I would never say a bad word about them. Lindsey Buckingham is pretty much a musical genius to me, highly neurotic, but a genius.
@61
“ Autograph wasn’t produced by Mutt Lange, but they sure wanted to sound that way! 😂” <- and they really did! Was Shania Twain and Def Leopard the only well known acts Mutt Lange had his producing-fingers in?
“Stevie Nicks can of course sing” <- yeah she can! Or could, I don’t know how she sounds these days.
And yes, Lindsey Buckingham was really something! The group was really something too when they were together, guess that’s why they handled their love-triangles the best they could, because each person knew they wouldn’t be anyone alone. Have had to be awful anyway 😖
By the way, Peter Green made this fantastic tune “Oh Well”, which Deep Purple made on “Turning to crime”, and I really love their performance 🤩
And then I saw this guy: https://youtu.be/H34Uc9JWECQ?si=JPngy2zRbLm_890I
It is a charming band, but Tom P’s voice was no near strong enough to carry that tune. (imho)
@60: All fine except Shania, not because of her singing, but because of that god-awful oof-duh oof-duh Euro Energy Disco beat, whenever I hear that, I stop listening unless it’s Right Said Fred
and that only because it was the favorite song of my son when he was seven years old! He drove us mad with it. 😁
Nena doesn’t really have a rock voice, but it wasn’t Schlager either, it was/is very typical of her, I’ve always liked her (before she started saying nonsensical stuff about COVID). Stevie Nicks we’ve mentioned before though I do prefer her with Fleetwood Mac rather than solo. And when Jump came out, I knew it was gonna be a huge hit.
You thought Van Halen looked feminine? Try these guys/girls …
Bet Ritchie would like the music of this artiste, Rosalie Cunningham. A touch of his favorite, Jethro Tull, can be heard in her sound. Which she mixes with other prog-rock/ hard rock / folk-rock influences to create something really distinctive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YehoejPll8&list=RDEM71BufWZpq5YI695VOCH1Xw&start_radio=1
Just missed her Swedish dates this year. Will hope to catch her next time.
@54 – Uwe, something must have cost Gillan market penetration in the US. Certainly never once heard a Gillan record on the radio or in a record store on the other side of the Atlantic, or knew anyone who bought one. Whereas Rainbow had an impact right from their debut, and Whitesnake, though slower to catch on, started receiving airplay as early as “Wine Women And Song”. Before hitting the stratosphere, starting with “Slow And Easy”.
But was it because of the”rawer sound”?
My school chums and I were instantly turned off by the fact that IG’s first LP not only used up half a side on a re-recording of “Child In Time” but was titled after the song as well. After several years away from the music business, coming back with a re-recording of something we’d already heard hundreds of times before seemed a sign of creative bankruptcy.
With all the exciting punk rock happening at the time, not to mention Scorpions, Rainbow, Judas Priest etc… We kind of wrote Gillan off and took no interest in his further doings.
@65 An interesting point, Skippy! I remember that Child In Time the album turned me off too. But that changed dramatically with the arrival of Clear Air Turbulence, a favourite of mine to this day. CIT was kinda half a**ed I feel. And the sound was dull. CAT on the other hand … great jazz rock if not really commercial in any way. And so noone seemed to listen. A pity. But starting with Mr. Universe Gillan the band put on a series of hard rocking almost NWOBHM-sounding albums with some memorable tunes thrown in. But I guess Uwe was right: wrong looks and a tinny sound. On the other hand: Did Maiden and Saxon really look THAT good? I mean, IG and Tormé looked the part and McCoy was a treat. And they sure put on a show. So I don’t really know what kept them from making it big time. Might be an air of not taking themselves too seriously… a deadly sin in that scene I’m afraid. Dio and RB llook ridiculous these days with al their pathos and drama while Gillan are still fun … but back then Rainbow drew bigger crowds. And I stand guilty too. RB on stage just could not be surpassed. As hard as Bernie Tormé might have tried to emulate him and Hendrix with a bit of punk thrown in.
Svante @64: And I thought I was the only person who knew and liked the Sisters Haim! Though to be fair: Their songs on their CD are a lot more pop than that (technically not ultra-proficient, but coming from the heart) fine cover of Oh Well would indicate.
More Oh Well versions here:
For KARIN, who seems to have discovered her love for bald, overweight bassists with a gentle heart:
For GREGSTER, who seems to boycott this forum now, PLEASE COME BACK, YOU MAY CONTINUE TO CLAIM THAT RITCHIE CAN’T PLAY SHIT AND THAT GLENN IS TO BLAME FOR EVERYTHING BAD WITH Mk III & IV:
Skippy: IGB and GILLAN were two radically different bands. I like all three albums by IGB though CIT is a bit tame in sound – that Pink Floyd’ish CIT (the song) version they did, I actually liked. What followed – CAT, Scarabus & Live At Budokan – I thought great.
If I’m not mistaken, even IGB did ‘better’ in the US (they did a lengthy tour with Nazareth as their openers and also package gigs with Thin Lizzy and Ted Nugent, not great combinations, but still …) than GILLAN or at least not as abysmally bad.
The GILLAN recordings just weren’t made to sound good on FM radio. They sounded abrasive, underproduced like demos or monitor mixes, Future Shock even sounded outright tinny, I can’t stand the sonics of that release though some of the material isn’t bad. That raw approach had its charm, but I think Americans like their music with a more refined production.
The often frantic/punkish speeds, Gillan’s off-the-wall and culturally very British humor, the deconstructivist approach to the music and Colin Towns’ twelve-tone-jazz-leanings sprinkled in plus Tormé’s too punk for heavy metal/too heavy metal for punk-image, I think it was all a bit much for US audiences (and Germany didn’t catch on either, that is saying something, given how much a die hard Purple fandom nation we are). Looking back, GILLAN and IGB certainly recorded the most interesting, edgy and daring music, both Rainbow and Whitesnake were conservative in their musical approach and careful not to demand too much from Purple fans.
BTW, I really like Rosalie Cunningham’s “witches’ brew psychedelic music”, both solo and with her band Purson. I have a soft spot for outré women artists that defy expectations, St Vincent is another one:
Like him or not, he was probably the most influential rock producer of the 80s. And he always had a thing with the women he produced, before Shania, his wife was Stevie Lange
@70
“ For KARIN, who seems to have discovered her love for bald, overweight bassists with a gentle heart:” <- love is such a strong word Uwe! I am fond of JM’s playing, and yes he seems to be gentle, that’s it 😉
“ And more recently, with that slightly frantic/disturbed edge only Lindsey Buckingham can give the song:” <- yeah he is amazing 😊
But he is certainly no Ian Gillan! 😉
@72
“ Were Shania Twain and Def Leopard the only well-known acts Mutt Lange had his producing-fingers in?”
Nope. Also all these mega-sellers here:” <- I had no idea mr Mutt produced AC/DC!
Oh haven’t listened to the Cars for a long time! Thanks for the links 😃
Touch & Go is to me one of the most brilliant and cleverly constructed pop songs ever, weird, but fascinating verse (with drums and bass playing different meters from the rest of the band, but it all coalescing) and then that liberating bridge leading to the earworm chorus citing 50s rock’n’roll. Plus two brilliant guitar solos, Elliot Easton was sooooo underrated. Also a band that could do proper backing vocals live, most Yank bands actually can (with the notable exception of KISS!), it’s an American art.
Mutt produced the three most successful albums of AC/DC, the two most successful ones of Def Leppard, the most successful ones of Foreigner, The Cars and Shania Twain. He made Australian street urchins commercially accessible and wiped Foreigner of their initial prog influences + turned a Sheffield garage band into the sonic wonder that was Def Leppard in the 80s, being a hard taskmaster as he is with any band.
His humble beginnings were with a South African band called Hocus, both he and his first wife Stevie, nee Stevie van Kerken, were born and raised in Africa. These tracks are fron 1971 and 1972, respectively, they would move to Europe later on:
I detect a lot of Hollies and Middle of the Road in the Hocus sound, you can already hear that melody is important to young Robert John “Mutt” Lange who wrote the songs.
It’s a recurring theme in his life that he propels acts to international success, but then they sever ties with him eventually because they find him too overshadowing and dominating in the studio. Yet without him, they never repeat the successes they had with him.
Oh that song in particular is horrible, Karin I can’t stand that fake brass synth sound, sorry. That music is truly plastic, the fake horn sound cheesy.
Surely, both Mutt and his then wife had the money to get in a proper horn section and do something organic with it? Like the little guy from Minneapolis did here, at 03:17, “horns down please” …
To the defense of Shania, we’re not talking ‘plastic surgery’ here (and the plastic sound of some of her recordings wasn’t so much her as Mutt’s fault), she has ruled that our for herself, which for a woman in her show biz position is an incredibly brave step, respect!
Seem to recall Shania freely admitting, 20+ years ago, that her records were not about art but commerce. Everything, from songs to image to videos, calculated to generate as much revenue as possible.
Not surprising given her impoverished childhood and the loss of both parents in a car crash when she was quite young. At which point she took on the task of raising her younger siblings.
She definitely achieved what she set out to accomplish!
@80
“ Like the little guy from Minneapolis did here, at 03:17, “horns down please” …”
Arrrhhh, I know what you mean!
I liked his voice, his genius and his undoubtedly great sense of musicality, but ohhh he was too much trying to impress! Had it anything to do with his poor height?
On the other hand, in this he is completely wonderful! Please watch this to the end and acknowledge his different approach to the worship he was used to: https://youtu.be/dWRCooFKk3c?si=EFMXmdA-JSq8vjVX
Just tossing his guitar to the crowd and walking of the set like that! Ohh man 😄
Shania isn’t my favourite singer, and no I really don’t appreciate her records, there are a few of the old tunes I really like, but you’re right, it’s too commercial, too ‘plastic’ ( no not her, the music).
Could she have told her then-husband: “I want another approach”?
I don’t know..
“ is an incredibly brave step, respect” – regarding no plastic surgery! 😝 come on! It’s completely obvious she has had something ‘done’ (remember she had Lyme disease and was pretty beaten by that 🥺)
I don’t really care if people end up like caricatures of their former selves, what I don’t like is when they yell out loud: “no I haven’t had anything done! I’m just eating kale and drinking purified water” 🤭
“Everything, from songs to image to videos, calculated to generate as much revenue as possible.”
Yes, calculated, that is a very good way of putting it, Skippy. I didn’t know about her childhood past, might very well be an explanation, all power to her.
I do remember reading an interview of her with a music magazine where she flabbergasted the interviewer with her intimate knowledge of acoustic guitars, really going into detail why she was playing certain brands and types. And it got to the point where the interviewer complimented her on her knowledge and she deadpanned good-naturedly: “I know, you expected me to say something like: “I like to play the ones with a hole in the middle and of a certain color.” when you asked me about my favorite guitar, but women can be guitar gear nerds too!” That was very perceptive of her. 🤣
I don’t think Shania is talentless, just underselling herself in quality (rather than quantity, I think her Come On Over album is still the most sold C&W album ever though some real C&W diehards would probably pull their nose at calling it country).
Mutt Lange is a production artist, but at one point his bag of tricks becomes a straight-jacket for artists. When I heard my first Shania Twain song, I almost fell off the chair laughing because of the tell-tale Def Leppard drum sound on a country pop song. It stood out like a sore thumb. But a year later or so, a lot of New Country songs from other producers emulated the same drum sound.
That iconic performance of Prince soloing over While My Guitar Gently Weeps you sought out, Karin (good choice and taste!), just goes to show what a brilliant guitarist he was. Prince was pure musicality. And of course he was a little guy clamoring for attention and validation, but we’re all driven by something. Lost to opioids, what a waste.
I have no idea what Shania had done or not done to her face and “no plastic surgery” doesn’t of course mean you’re not botoxing or using fillers, but for her line of work it seems to me that she is not overtly trying to create the illusion of an eternally youthful look. There are a lot of worse culprits out there. Re preservation of an unnatural state (i.e. miraculously NOT aging), women are certainly in a most unenviable position with our current cultural expectations.
“Lost to opioids, what a waste.”
What a waste indeed.
Wasn’t it something with a bad hip that was the main cause of the opioid use?
No matter what, he was amazing 😻
“miraculously NOT aging”
I really don’t care what people are doing to themselves! Hopefully people are grownups when they’re doing whatever they’re doing and therefore outside the pedagogical reach.
What I don’t like is the claim of “just eating very healthy and thinking positive”😂
As mr Gillan says, according to the lovely song ‘Pictures of you’:
“ the early days of photography there was a saying, expressed by my grandfather as a truism, ‘The Camera neve lies’. Not entirely accurate but good enough by comparison with today, when ‘the camera’ frequently does nothing but lie. In collaboration with creams, scalpels and partial paralysis caused by botulinum neurotoxin, Photoshop can put a mongrel on the front cover of Slickeroo, the mag for thoroughbreds. Being one myself, I’ve always been attracted to mongrels, so I prefer ‘the real thing’; you are beautiful, be what you are.”
– couldn’t agree more!
“just eating very healthy and thinking positive” 😂 That is akin to models saying they “never diet”. I knew one via my son, skinny as she already was, she would starve herself before any catwalk fashion show and photo shooting. But she was at least honest about it and would then eat regularly again (vegan of course) after the show/shooting. That and smoking cigarettes to stay slim.
@ 86 – that sounds a little like Patsy from Absolutely Fabulous. Although she hadn’t eaten anything since 1973/4 apparently, as she often reminded Edwina.
![[hand]](/hs-pics/portraits/hands/gillan1.jpg)
![[face]](/hs-pics/portraits/faces/glover2.jpg)
Unauthorized copying, while sometimes necessary, is never as good as the real thing
Ohhh man! I’m the female edition of Ritchie 😂
I agree wholeheartedly with his point of view regarding the modern music scene!
Have never thought this day would arrive! But I have to say this:
Ritchie, I will go out, buy myself a hat and I will lift my hat for you in deepest respect 🫡
December 1st, 2024 at 21:22Hear hear Ritchie, just a ‘slight’ difference to days gone by to todays drivel. Thanks for posting & now we can add Ritchie to the ‘Grumpy Old Mens’ club, officially. Talking of Grumpy Old Men I would love to see Rick Wakeman interview Ritchie, there would be plenty of ‘humour’ in that no doubt. Cheers.
December 1st, 2024 at 21:56Ritchie’s right, of course. But the blessing is that most of us were around when rock ruled. It was organic, mostly melodic and fresh. The thing is, it hasn’t completely died by any means. And because it’s been recorded, it will forevermore be around at the touch of a button or click of a mouse.
December 1st, 2024 at 22:02I don’t listen to classic rock on the radio – not only because of the incessant commercials – but because I don’t like to hear something so often than I become sick of it. It’s nice to be able to hear something anew that you haven’t heard in years or decades. Another way of enjoying the older music is to listen to deeper cuts on old albums or to some of the artists you didn’t pay as much attention to back in the day.
I can definitely relate to Ritchie. Cream, Blind Faith, Derek and the Dominos, etc. You can’t go wrong with it.
December 2nd, 2024 at 00:03Like Ritchie, I think Rock’n’Roll was best in the 14-1500s, when those Fenders and Gibsons rang true and clear through the vast castle structures and peasants would – smallpox and the plague allowing – camp out for those love & peace festivals. Sooooo organic.
Well, there you have it, I already wrote months ago that Autumn likes Taylor. All-American girl then.
December 2nd, 2024 at 00:11Always a good idea to listen to Elvis Presley.
You ain’t nothin’ but a hound dog
December 2nd, 2024 at 06:28Cryin’ all the time
You ain’t nothin’ but a hound dog
Cryin’ all the time
I think if you think of music as an art and you bring back some the great artists from the dead and show them what is called art nowadays they would say the same.
December 2nd, 2024 at 07:00Music is tool for our hearing and seeing senses and that is it.
Now my problem lies with the fact that a musician has to play instruments of music but nowadays it the size of human assets that you are born with can sometimes make you the best musician. Now what has this got to do with music. I think that is a better approach.
Peace ✌️
“Always a good idea to listen to Elvis Presley.”
Well Tony, it was nice knowing you! As I innocently type, our RNH (resident Nordic heks) is already in her occult preparations regarding you …
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2GE17E3/sorceress-or-witch-sticks-needles-into-voodoo-doll-at-ritual-table-with-pentagram-burning-candles-and-other-occult-objects-top-view-voodoo-witchcraft-spirituality-and-occultism-concept-2GE17E3.jpg
It’s witchcraft …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjE9AvdnWK0
PS: Of course, an option would be to well-meaningly recondition Karin a little and let her find her true self …
https://media.gettyimages.com/id/517350946/photo/elvis-presley-signing-autographs.jpg?s=612×612&w=gi&k=20&c=f9yD7JHLUe7Y0LcEChIUAGGQMDwkfgrH9eHZds5o6Rc=
https://c7.alamy.com/comp/B5B2CT/youth-culture-miss-robinson-who-has-decorated-her-bedroom-with-pictures-B5B2CT.jpg
December 2nd, 2024 at 08:36“I’d rather hear talk radio about who’s the latest president” ….un-freakin’ believable.
December 2nd, 2024 at 13:18@8
Know what Uwe?
I am honoured you spend so much time concentrating on me and my doings 🤣🤣
As I’ve told you several times, the only needles I use is as a acupuncturist ☺️
And just to make sure:
December 2nd, 2024 at 17:13I can’t stand that butter-tenor, EP!
But I surely appreciate the free will, as well as the free speech 😂
“But I surely appreciate the free will …”
Oh dear, did they make you listen to Rush again? “I will choose a path that’s clear, I will choose freewill …”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6pn8O7nXKY
December 2nd, 2024 at 17:42I never listen to
December 2nd, 2024 at 17:44(a rock )traitor. .
Acupuncture, now that rings a bell!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y8nzum9c8M
December 2nd, 2024 at 18:47I have this dream, that whilst Ritchie smoulders in his subterranean bar akin to some dormant volcano, he’s secretly recording one last rock album… one for the ages, with his influences laid bare… I’d like (nay) love that… you never know, one or two might make a radio playlist somewhere… that or he’s guessing on the next Taylor Swift single… actually – rather bizarrely I’d love that lol. Maybe she’ll cover High Ball Shooter ? Yeah I’m dreaming… ahem.
Back to reality, I’m enjoying hearing Ritchie’s tales… Clapton and Cream getting regular high praise… and why not.
December 2nd, 2024 at 20:09Ouch, AndreA, I have a very distinct memory from ‘Hannibal’ of the Italian punishment for treason being quite severe, even drastic to the unaccustomed eye!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTLVptmb3Pg&t=208s
‘Spudellare’, is it?
December 2nd, 2024 at 20:50Some people just don’t get Blackmore, even after all these years. Ho Hum. Cheers.
December 2nd, 2024 at 21:11@11
December 2nd, 2024 at 21:46Oh dear, yes 😉😄
@13
So you really don’t know the Chinese ancient art of acupuncture 📌📌
And will you please explain to me what that strange bass is, Roger is playing in the great song “She took my breath away”?
December 2nd, 2024 at 21:51P L E A S E!
I really feel sorry for the kids of today , they have got nothing decent to listen to …I utterly despair.
December 2nd, 2024 at 22:43Even the utter garbage that comes out today is just recycled samples from 80s etc
Ritchie is spot on …as usual !
One of my favourite things to do of an evening is to go onto You Tube and discover hidden gems from bygone days …I’ve recently discovered Curved Air ….don’t know a thing about them except, there is some sort of connection with Stewart Copeland from The Police .
This leeds down to bands like Family, Pretty Things etc …how lucky and blessed are my!?
In fact thanks To Gillans top bands ..I’ve discovered Susie Q by CCR …fabulous !
Meanwhile , today’s kids sample another Taylor Swift remix 😫
He’s right, you know.
December 3rd, 2024 at 01:02@ 8
Wicked ways …..oooooh thats a long time ago…….
Bring on the band of angels from the great divide
December 3rd, 2024 at 07:03I’ll never get to heaven so take me for a ride
Fruit on the tree is shaking, my mind is in a daze
I just want a taste of your love
And learn your wicked ways
@18: It’s a Steinberger, as explained several times on the other page where you asked. 🙂
https://www.steinberger.com/
December 3rd, 2024 at 07:07@21
December 3rd, 2024 at 07:38I’m blushing ☺️
Thanks Svante, sorry I haven’t been attentive to the explanations 🙃
PUBLIC NOTICE FROM THE RESIDENT EQUAL OPPORTUNITIES OFFICER/GLEICHSTELLUNGSBEAUFTRAGTER:
But Svante, you can’t expect Karin to rigidly stick to topics, research in a concentrated fashion without looking left or right …
https://www.seqis.com/assets/images/f/AdobeStock_30444001_Scheuklappen-web-802195fd.jpg
… or, banish the thought, show something like patience for the processing of her queries! That is highly unfair and discouraging, perpetuating archaic male structures, you have to do better!
She’s a woman after all. Everything is all at once of equal unfiltered importance to her. 😇
How the female mind works, in all its bewildering wonderment:
https://media4.giphy.com/media/fRhMg89EvkIG0jsQaF/200w.gif
In comparison, the male mind is a dour affair:
https://64.media.tumblr.com/2f629a1f859e1c9ed0bf583a8bd4e9eb/tumblr_inline_p0rhd3httY1r5ob8p_400.gifv
December 3rd, 2024 at 07:40Old people tend to think the world ends with them … ask me, I should know.
Of course that’s nonsense. Just because Ritchie thinks there’s no more decent music around it doesn’t have to be true. In fact there are LOTS of brillant musicians out there to discover. And you know what? It ist easier than ever before! You check them out on youtune or on spotiy and if you find something you like buy it on cd or vinyl. Yeah, vinyl is back aagain big time too.
Back when I was young most kids would listen to the Bay City Rollers or stuff like that. It’s not that they were all into Yes or DP or Weather Report! There has always been a majority that would just listen to mainstream radio and him along to it. While others would dig deeper. And those kids are around today as well. And there is plenty of wonderful musicof all kinds to explore. Just the other day I attended a show of an US band in a club whose members were into Frankie Miller and they even played two of his songs. And that ist just for the classic rock segment… Blues, Jazz, Rock’n’Roll ..you name it. It is out there and more than ever. And yes, there is no new Wish you were here, Led Zep IV, In Rock or Sticky Fingers. You know what? Because it has been done already.
December 3rd, 2024 at 08:03“He’s right, you know.”
No, he’s not, he’s a boring old fart/curmudgeon just like our dads were when judging our music. Older generations shouldn’t pass judgement on the music of younger generations, period, leave it to them.
And Ritchie’s music taste was – except for a very short period in the late 60s/early 70s when he was in tune with musical fashion for once – always very conservative, bordering on the reactionary. I mean just look at him, devoting the last three decades of his musical life to reenacting and cosplaying late medieval music. If that isn’t regression, I don’t know what is.
The rock and pop bands he has named over the years as finding his fancy have all been safe, established and middle of the road: ABBA, Neil Diamond, Bob Dylan (musically, Dylan did last something daring when he strapped on an electric guitar in the early 60s and shocked folkies), Blondie, Asia, Jethro Tull, Jimi Hendrix, Cream, Johnny Winter …
The only time I have heard him mention liking something quirky/off the wall was when he professed his love for Carmen in his by now legendary Sept 1978 Guitar Player interview:
https://i.etsystatic.com/48046018/r/il/dabf9d/5689168625/il_1588xN.5689168625_1dp5.jpg
https://www.thehighwaystar.com/interviews/blackmore/guitarplayer/guitarplay5.html
QUOTE
“Are there any other projects you’re involved in?”
“I haven’t wanted to do any other projects, but I’d like to do some work with the band Carmen. It’s flamenco style, but on rock. It’d be interesting to throw some wild solos in their stuff. I don’t get inspired by many bands, but they’re really interesting.”
UNQUOTE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQFq_2OyG60
And that band was indeed, in 1973, light years ahead of its time and absolutely categorization-defying. But Blackmore lauded them in an interview five years later (by which time Carmen had long split up, their music having met mostly bewilderment), his musical tastes were never especially current or cutting edge.
December 3rd, 2024 at 08:26@ 15 Uwe
😅
We say “sbudellare”.
Anyway, I prefer “I’ ll rip your spine out!” 🔪
December 3rd, 2024 at 10:07In line with the great words of our beloved Martin Luther king.
December 3rd, 2024 at 16:36I have a dream that one day true musician will not be judged by the colour or length of hair or by their make up or the size of their external body parts but it will be judged by their true musical and vocal skills.
Peace ✌️
“Thanks Svante, sorry I haven’t been attentive to the explanations …”
That’s ok, Karin, ever since adolescence I’ve been largely ignored by women. You do get used to it.
https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:350/1*Odi5WKRNfU1vrMcMpz4PFw.png
Hey Max, what was wrong with liking the Bay City Rollers?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4SUsAsX_OI
I always thought them pleasant enough power pop.
Other than that I of course agree with you. Music has changed, there is a greater influence of electronic sounds (but that was started in the 70s, even the Beatles already used synthesizers on some tracks in the 60s) and technology allows even more studio wizardry, but technology plays a greater role in all aspects of our daily lives or I wouldn’t be here typing this and you wouldn’t be able to read it everywhere in the world a few seconds later. Cream and Free playing electrified blues wasn’t the same as Mississippi Delta Blues of the 20s of the last century either. And if aging baby boomers don’t like some or most of it, then that is because it is not aimed at us. As it should be.
December 3rd, 2024 at 17:52@24
Dear Uwe!
I know I’m not nearly as intelligent, wise, clever or astute as you and the rest of the gang in here. Never have I suggested I am! 🤓
And when you all start discussing specific topics regarding basses, guitars, amplifiers, plectrums, bandages and t-shirts, yes then I do tend to zoom out a bit, and my maternal instincts kick in and I think: awww the dear boys are having fun again 🥰
Actually I was certain you all talked about Rush (I shiver in terror thinking of that voice 🫨) and in my wildest imagination I couldn’t believe Roger Glover, my bassist-hero, in any way could be related musically to that person from Rush 😲
Well, live and learn 😁
I thank you for your kindness and patience with me, and now I will study the recipe for flæskesteg, as I have never in my life prepared such a dish before! 😝
December 3rd, 2024 at 18:34@ 26- Blackmore is right Uwe & you know it, stop trying to justify a complete load of utter bollocks. You know what he means & it’s true, simple. Cheers.
December 3rd, 2024 at 20:30@31
December 3rd, 2024 at 22:03I agree MacGregor 👏🏼
when Ritchie says that “Eric started it all” he forgets to add “but I was more fundamental than him with the masterpieces I wrote for the following generations of rock musicians and listeners!!!”
#14 Kosh
your little big dream would be fantastic if it came true, but maybe you should tell Ritchie because I don’t think he even thought about it!
#25 Max
December 3rd, 2024 at 23:35I think Ritchie is not referring to the many talented musicians who passionately make records and sell few of them, I think he is referring to the fact that there are no longer any great bands that achieve great, great success, that reach a large global audience as happened with the groups and soloists who dominated the charts in the 60s/70s/80s
@ 26 -” No, he’s not, he’s a boring old fart/curmudgeon just like our dads were when judging our music. Older generations shouldn’t pass judgement on the music of younger generations, period, leave it to them.” People can ‘pass judgement’ if they want to, it is their right to express an opinion. We all still listened to & followed the artists we enjoyed didn’t we? “I mean just look at him, devoting the last three decades of his musical life to reenacting and cosplaying late medieval music. If that isn’t regression, I don’t know what is” Of which you support & contribute to him continuing on being ‘regressive’. Who is the one being regressive Uwe? “The rock and pop bands he has named over the years as finding his fancy have all been safe, established and middle of the road: ABBA, Neil Diamond, Bob Dylan (musically, Dylan did last something daring when he strapped on an electric guitar in the early 60s and shocked folkies), Blondie, Asia, Jethro Tull, Jimi Hendrix, Cream, Johnny Winter …” so what, your point is? Blackmore like anyone else is entitled to his opinion. There are plenty of others who comment in a very similar fashion in regards to this topic. We don’t need anyone to help us along the way, we see & hear what is out there & observe what is happening, it is the way of things unfortunately. Nothing cutting edge about it, in fact it is the opposite of that. Musical regression eh? Cheers.
December 4th, 2024 at 02:54I dunno Herr MacGregor, do I really listen to enough modern popular music to be able to pass informed judgement? I never listen to the radio, I don’t watch music shows on TV, a Spotify list is for me as arcane as an UFO, my iPhone has one stored song (BÖC’s Don’t Fear The Reaper, I wanted that as my ringtone, but that somehow didn’t work), I don’t buy cars that don’t feature a CD player, even my kids don’t really listen to modern pop music, when they visit us and play music from their iPhones more than 80% of it is music that is more than 20 years old, going back as far as the 60s (my daughter) or even the 20s/30s (my son with his penchant for authentic Mississippi Blues) of the last century. Yes, out of curiosity, I sometimes buy a Coldplay, Beyoncé or Taylor Swift CD, but these are in essence still traditional pop artists. The last gig I’ve been to of a (then) “contemporary” artist was Shakira with my then eleven year old daughter who wanted to see her in 2003, that seems like a long time ago (I’ll be turning grandpa soon) and Shakira is by now 47 (the gig was actually good, very hard rock-oriented and therefore going over the heads of most of the teenage girls in the audience).
So my exposure to modern pop is extremely limited and when I hear something by coincidence I mostly go, oh, how interesting, so that is how it sounds today! I realize that it is not aimed at me and don’t feel offended. I live in an essentially 70s rock bubble (the decade when I was a teenager, surprise!) with music from later eras liberally sprinkled in.
I tried to take a laissez-faire attitude like my dad did – born 1931, he liked Glenn Miller, James Last, Johnny Cash and Schlager, even 50s rock’n’roll was already beyond him. But he wouldn’t say a word if I had DP’s In Rock or Last Concert in Japan, Rainbow’s On Stage, Status Quo’s LIVE! or Judas Priest’s British Steel blaring over our living room stereo, but just sit there and read his magazine or book and sometimes even mumble something like “now that wasn’t that bad”. And he would also chauffeur me to Rainbow and Status Quo gigs when I didn’t yet have a driver’s license and patiently wait outside in the car. So I try to preserve some of that nonchalance.
He was way into his 70s when I visited him on a Sunday and he had the neighbors’ young boy in his early teens with him who was playing the most god-awful cookie-monster vocals Slipknot album over our living room stereo, trying to impress him with his freshly discovered favorite band (the kid was still learning the trumpet at the time). And my dad, who liked the kid, went along with it and so all three of us sat there listening to Slipknot (my first experience of them).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TokaT9MPLM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Rog8XY8oxg
And after a while my dad deadpans to me: “That sounds like what you always used to listen to, right?” 😂 And for a second I thought about explaining the difference, but then thought better of it and just said: “Yes, kind of, very nice music.” To which the neighbors’ kid beamed: “My dad always says it’s just noise!!!” 🤣
I don’t need to knock today’s music of which I know little about to reassure me of my love for Deep Purple.
December 4th, 2024 at 03:30“… in my wildest imagination I couldn’t believe Roger Glover, my bassist-hero, in any way could be related musically to that person from Rush …”
Well, they just played the same type of bass for a while (actually also in the 70ies, both played Rickenbacker 4001 models) and if you were a professional bassist in the 80s/early 90s and could actually afford it, it was quite likely that you would at one point try out a Steinberger L2 just to hear what it’s like. But very few people stuck with playing them. Roger Glover especially has played many different bass types throughout his career, he was always searching for something: Fender, Rickenbacker, Gibson, Ovation, Hondo, Peavey, Steinberger, Ernie Ball Music Man, Vigier …
Other than that I’m not aware that Deep Purple’s and Rush’s paths crossed much. I do remember that in the early 80s Gary Moore with Little Ian on drums would open for Rush on US tours and that Little Ian lauded (rightfully) Neil Peart’s drumming capabilities. And Peart would later on return the favor and say Paicey was good. Which is not that surprising given that they were/are both avowed Buddy Rich fans and as such fruits swinging (pun laboriously intended) from the same tree.
Peart was never leaden or hamfisted, I liked that about him. He was a very delicate, nimble and elegant drummer, yet powerful, but not mindlessly so. Among the three Rush instrumentalists always my favorite, even ahead of Geddy Lee (for whatever reason, Alex Lifeson’s guitar playing, skillful as it was, never really spoke with me emotionally).
December 4th, 2024 at 04:18Like Uwe I am far from knowing an awful lot about today’s music. What I do know is: There has always been ghood music and there has always been music, that was just the flavour of the week. Something to hum along to, maybe dance to and than move on to the next big thing. (ike Bay City Rollers, Uwe. I get your drift of finding a little pleasure in acting unpredictable tastewise but that was stretching things a bitz far for my liking … not even girls that wanted to be taken serious listened to them! Sweet or Smokie was as far as you were allowed to succumb to guilty pleasures)
Fla76, yes, that may be the case but chart success is not what it’s all about. Rock music isn’t as defining for a generation as it used to be. Like Blues or Jazz for example it has now its place among music styles that will stay – but not necessarily in the charts that is.
But the albums put out today are as good as those albums in the 60s or 70s – they just don’t sell that much. Therefore the music is still there if you look for it – which Ritchie doesn’t do obviously.
My sons make me listen to a lot of music, new music as well and while one of them shares a similiar taste in many aspect the other one tends to listen to Hip Hop. I isn’t my cup of tea and never will be – but listening to Kayne West was eyeopening for me. Now here#s something really interesting! No, it is not to my tastes and no, it is not Rock music – but it sure has something to it and it may well be as new and disturbing and groundbreaking as, say, Zappa was way back when.
December 4th, 2024 at 07:31@36
I read it all without zooming out 😉
Spøg til side:
Ian Paice was an opening act for Rush!
That’ll be the day….
https://youtu.be/9mDGcxbAusg?si=br0PvNOpkpF5MWoM
Actually I had no idea so many different basses exist!
What make you chose to play the bass?
December 4th, 2024 at 08:07Fla76, you do have a point, the era of bands – a collective of like-minded musicians who all have some influence on the music being played – seems to be indeed over. (I don’t call a K-pop boy band a ‘band’ in that sense.) And it has been for a while.
The last two decades or so have very much seen the emergence of the solo artist to transport music. I think there are a couple of reasons for that:
– The creation of music these days needs less (wo)manpower. If in the 60s you wanted to play live, you needed to form a band with your buddies. But any kid today can create music via home recording, Pro Tools, drum machines, pre-recorded beats, synths, digital components and – we’re only at the beginning of this – AI without ever leaving the house of his parents. The DJ creating new music from components is an archetype of that. It’s not like this didn’t exist before – Mike Oldfield and Tom Scholz of Boston were both essentially home recorders with a high affinity for the then available technology -, but it has now become the industry standard.
– Bands are risky business and more difficult to manage + market. When a solo artist is in an artistic rut, (s)he will reinvent her-/himself, hoping to carry most of her/his bands with the change; if bands hit a creative brick wall, that often means breakup as everyone is pulling into different directions. And following a breakup, things aren’t often the same, just look at what happen artistically and commercially once the Coverdale-Sykes tandem in the Purple Family broke up. That wouldn’t have happened had John Sykes had the voice of David Coverdale or if David Coverdale been as good a guitarist as John Sykes – if their respective abilities had been joined in one person. I very much have a preference for bands over solo artists, I prefer The Beatles to anything done by George/John/Paul/Ringo solo, DP over Rainbow, Police over Sting, Cream over Eric Clapton, Genesis over Phil Collins or Peter Gabriel etc. The need to compromise and leave comfort zones as a musician in a band does more good than it does harm to the end product IMHO.
– Media interest and promotion focuses on solo artists these days. Just look at all those talent and popularity shows that never feature any bands, but individuals waiting to be “discovered”. I guess it’s part of the general sociological trend for individualism in Western Societies.
https://kercommunications.com/wp-
content/videoaudio/fame/15-minutes.jpg
And we as baby boomers have no one else to blame but ourselves for this, it’s our children and grandchildren who have become like this in a world we shaped for them.
December 4th, 2024 at 08:29@ 35 – Different strokes for different folks I guess is a good way to look at it. My father being a radio announcer & managing the local record store was exposed a fair bit to the changes in music throughout the 1950’s, 60’s & into the 70’s. He was aware of the Concerto For Group & Orchestra album. He commented once that he liked what he had heard of it & was impressed by the classical elements in what he had heard in other earlier DP music. He would not have liked In Rock though for obvious reasons. However we didn’t really ever talk about the differences in music & he only ever objected to the loudness of what we sometimes played our music at. Anyway we were lucky to be around at that time & yes we probably have, well some of us, become ‘grumpy old men’ ha ha ha. Well looking at it in that humorous way & possibly at other times a little more seriously. I also regress. I hear enough of ‘modern’ music in various guises & it is much more un realistic in many ways, fake even in certain aspects. I Robot indeed. Do I live in the past, in that aspect I do indeed like so many others. We were spoilt, one way of looking at it & I am certainly glad I was part of that. I do notice a hell of a lot of comments on the ‘tube’ from younger people & they really like older popular music, much more than their own modern era. More genuine, more melodic & better delivery all round etc etc. Just not enough of them in todays world to please the masses & the record company gits. Cheers.
December 4th, 2024 at 09:04My link @39 should have been:
https://www.art9000.com/media_kunst/img/48/g/48_w1446~andy-warhol_in-the-future-everybody-will-be-world-famous-for-fifteen-minutes.jpg
December 4th, 2024 at 14:54What happens as we come to age is that we learn what music is supposed to sound like. For me that was primarily the sounds of hard rock and dirty blues from the late 60s to ear;y 70s, Beatles, Yardbirds, Cream, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, and of course Deep Purple are ‘real’ music to my ears. It’s also natural that new forms of music generations later doesn’t register as music to our ears. Same as I listen to older forms of music. Old blues resonate with me more than 50s RnR, jazz, or classical.
December 4th, 2024 at 15:49“What made you choose to play the bass?”
Bad experiences with the other gender mostly, Karin.
No, seriously, I didn’t choose the bass, the bass chose me. When we started our first band in 1977, I still had great things in mind for me, lead guitar and lead vocals! That soon got whittled down to just lead vocals, other people wanted to play lead guitar. But no one wanted to play bass, me included. Then someone had the bright idea of saying “Well if you have your hands free while singing, Uwe, you might as well play bass!” The logic of it struck me. So we started rehearsing with me on bass and lead vocals, our band was called ‘Thunderbolt, after the WWII US fighter Republic P-47 Thunderbolt:
https://www.historynet.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Jug-Lead-1200×724.jpg
We covered Kiss, Ted Nugent, Ramones, Slade, Status Quo, all pretty badly, let me assure you! 😂
Then things get murky, I have no real evidence, but I believe I was the victim of a conspiracy: My band mates began to say “Uwe, you’re such a fine bass player, why not concentrate on that and we get someone else to sing?” Gullible as I am, I fell for it.
And remained a bass player ever since. I pretty quickly began to like the instrument and it’s subtle power. I smirk about guitarists that need “their” amp to do anything and if they don’t have it they’re totally helpless. Me, I intrepidly plug into anything that works and is loud enough – what comes out always sounds sufficiently “like Uwe” to me and others. I admire Steve Morse’s clever use of effects and amp settings, but to me it is like he is always walking around with an oxygen tent. I don’t need that. Bass rules.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PCkvCPvDXk&list=RD7PCkvCPvDXk&start_radio=1
December 4th, 2024 at 22:56#42 Dr. Bob
exactly, the perception is that the “old” is REAL music, I think that even someone who doesn’t understand anything about music or has never listened to the rock of the 60s/70s/80s before (like the millions of “First listening” on YouTube) can perceive the difference between the mainstream crap of today and the mainstream rock pop of the past….the musical ability, the creativity, the harmonies are all things that can be perceived.
the paradox is that streaming has ruined the music market (after the music companies themselves ruined it in the 90s), but for a person curious to discover the masterpieces of the past, streaming is an inexhaustible mine ready to be played.
#37 Max
I agree with what you say, I’m the first (as a 49 year old) who has neither the time nor the desire to listen to new rock, hard&heavy or other music created in the last 15 years.
I hardly have time to listen to old music which is my background!
not to mention all the blues, classical, new age, world music that I listened to and discovered when I was in my early 20s….maybe I would stay listening to music until 3-4 in the morning, today I couldn’t do that anymore!
even the great Italian music of the past….unfortunately today’s Italian pop is truly a misery of people who don’t know how to write a deep song and who don’t know how to sing without rap and without autotune, banal lyrics and melodies heard thousands of times.
I leave you Three masterpieces of refined Italian pop:
Franco Battiato “The Cure”
https://youtu.be/hk0SZ1E9dU0?si=7SC8e3RNrsL1SDHu
Lucio Dalla “Henna”
https://youtu.be/TOHiM9fHyic?si=vzbV3oY3Wv5XrpmV
(Dalla is famous for the masterpiece “Caruso” but this song is at the same level for me…when I saw him live I cried a lot from the emotion, one of my 3 best concerts ever!)
and then the most famous Italian prog group, Premiata Forneria Marconi (PFM) with “Impressions of September”
https://youtu.be/DS76YKxiOKU?si=V43uDcSVZIoaRcpY
for those who want to look for the lyrics and translate them, in here I hear the truth, life and musicians (obviously old) who honor music as an art as much as most of the historic pop and rock groups of the 70s did
December 5th, 2024 at 00:34With everybody whining how music used to be better, I wanna join in too!!! Uwe ‘fesses up so to say.
If there is one musical trend (and it has been going on since the late 70s and gained hold over more and more popular music) I deplore, it is the decline of guitar riffs as central motifs of chart music.
Let’s get the definition straight first: To me a riff is a sequence of notes played by (mostly) the guitar that is repeated (not necessarily played incessantly, but that is ok too) in a song and tends to dominate it. It can be with vocal accompaniment (“Burn” or “Knocking On Your Back Door”) or without (SOTW, “Lazy”). Riff songs are to me to name but a few: The Stones’ Satisfaction, Iron Butterfly’s Inagaddadavida, Cream’s Sunshine Of Your Love, The Beatles’ Come Together, Zep’s Whole Lotta Love, Clapton’s Layla, Alice Cooper’s School’s Out, Stevie Wonder’s Superstition, David Bowie’s Jean Genie & Rebel Rebel, Pink Floyd’s Money, ZZ Top’s Tush, Aerosmith’s Walk This Way, Kansas’ Carry On Wayward Son, The Bee Gee’s Stayin’ Alive, Michael Jackson’s Beat It, Dire Straits’ Money For Nothing, Nirvana’s Come As You Are, Lenny Kravitz’ Are You Gonna Go My Way – as well as pretty much ANYTHING DP or Black Sabbath have ever released, there’s too many to list from those two! 😂
In terms of music history the riff is of course a Delta Blues remnant and therefore an element of African tribal music, it’s something very primal. Traditionally, Blues, rock, hard and heavy rock/heavy metal have been the homestead of the riff, but as some of the songs listed by me above show it was never restricted to just those genres. This here is a great and dominating riff:
https://youtu.be/i7iQbBbMAFE
I admit to having this very conservative reflex in me and that is the conviction that a proper rock song needs a memorable riff and that anything lacking it is somehow lesser, banal music. My wife sometimes plays something new to me she likes and I go dismissively “But there’s no riff, it’s just Akkordgeschrubbe!”Bands like U2 or Coldplay don’t write riff-oriented music. Taylor Swift wouldn’t know what a riff is and if it hit her like a freight train though she does admit a love for Def Leppard.
I blame Punk for the first pushback. Though energized and rebellious, the music of The Ramones and The Sex Pistols wasn’t riff-driven. It’s a lot easier to move bar chords around angrily than to write a good riff wile you’re rehearsing in the garage.
Since then, the 80s and all following decades have seen a progressive decline in riff-oriented music – I really miss it! Billy Corgan of Smashing Pumpkins once said that though he loves riffs he doesn’t write them because “All the great riffs on guitar have been written. Whenever you think you have come up with one yourself, you then find out that it is already somewhere on like Made In Japan!” (Corgan is a Blackmore fan.)
If I had to boil my love for DP down to one criterion only, it would be the adoration and worship of THE RIFF as the central part of a song. Ironically that is also the aspect that less hard rock-friendly folks find predictable and limiting in Purple’s and other heavy acts’ music. Whenever I play 🔥 Burn 🔥, my wife sighs “How many more times are they gonna repeat that riff in that song, we’ve heard it quite a bit now!” 🤐 As any caring husband dedicated to the development of his spouse must, I then of course admonish her “Weib, one more heresy like that out of your uncouth mouth and I will personally see to your incineration at the stake where the engulfing flames of enlightenment may guide you to passionate insight and cleansing revelation!” 🤣
Alas!, and thus ends Uwe’s heartfelt obituary for THE RIFF in contemporary music …
https://youtu.be/3-_2jKHbIIg
https://youtu.be/MACVaU-2whQ
https://youtu.be/LKuuHfMx3CQ
December 5th, 2024 at 08:58@43
“ Bad experiences with the other gender mostly, Karin.”
Well, you’ve been married twice, are still married to the dear Edith, so even if you hadn’t offered me the right explanation, I wouldn’t have bought into that 😄
Thanks so much for telling me the background 👍🏼
But a bit øv your band mates didn’t let you sing!
Yeah Meghan Trainor is completely right! And if I may add: ..and the drums!
Do you still perform?
John McCoy, from Gillan, does he still perform?
I really loved his way of handling the bass!
You have a style, but do you have someone, like Roger G, you lean on more than others? Or du you need to look away from other bass-player’s style to maintain your own style?
I remember Nino saying she learned to play the piano, did you also have some training, or was it more ‘learning by doing”? (Learning by ear?)
I’m so envious of you who can play any kind of instrument 😞
It really must add some extra dimension to, well everything!
Yes, I could learn now, but really haven’t got the time, and I guess it’s easier being a child to learn notes and learn to play an instrument.
In our music lessons at school I always ended up playing the two sticks to keep a rhythm 😄 that was fun, but oh to play the piano, guitar, bass, drums, violin – yeah no matter what, just to be able to express emotions and thoughts like that 😍 that must really be something 😃
December 5th, 2024 at 12:37“… masterpieces of refined Italian pop …”
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/39/7d/7f/397d7f005d6975070de4c94e04560fcd.gif
Wot, no Alice, seriously?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6gChJjmj0Y
Una mancanza inaudita! 😮 (Did I get that right?)
December 5th, 2024 at 14:06#47 Uwe
I quickly mentioned 3 great songs by three great artists of the past with splendid melodies and lyrics….of course the list is longer, but Battiato and Dalla were truly two geniuses of Italian song
I agree with your point about guitar riffs, the memorable ones have been gone for decades now, as have the sales of rock bands due to the dead end that record companies have gotten themselves into.
fortunately from the 90s to today hard & heavy bands still exist and make riffs, but even if for example Gotthard made a new SOTW they would never have the success of DP and therefore it would remain in the background (with the typical phrase of the reviews “if they were in the 70s or 80s they would sell millions of copies)
in the 80s pop/new wave/dance groups wrote singles with riffs (not necessarily guitar riffs) that were spot on and distinctive, worthy of our favorite bands… I’m thinking of Inxs, Frankie goes to Hollywood, Simple minds, Tears for fears, Roxette, Culture club, Bronski beat, Talk talk, Opus, etc. etc.
December 5th, 2024 at 23:24Due to my daughter’s great interest in Japan and Japanese music, I myself have listened to quite a few Japanese artists.
If you can ignore the fact that you can’t understand what they sing (you can’t do that in many western groups either) you can hear a lot of good music from there.
Examples
THE ORAL CIGARETTES:
https://youtu.be/Px-MCA8Mzsk
ONE OK ROCK:
https://youtu.be/h1PN7LEH2Vs
A few girl bands:
Mary’s Blood:
https://youtu.be/MLM2unV0kwU
Band-Maid:
https://youtu.be/mVrN-j_Uc0U
https://youtu.be/yfORoQIqB3E
Lovebites:
December 6th, 2024 at 10:05https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vzfkkpjp4CM
Karin, John McCoy of formerly GILLAN did perform until a few years ago, often with the late Bernie Tormé, but, let’s be frank, he hasn’t done anything substantial since the early 80s. I don’t know why that is, I think that contrary to his visuals John is a very sensitive man and something went broke with him when that band folded, he really loved GILLAN and felt betrayed by Ian.
Lots of questions re my bass playing, where to start … The bassists of the greater Purple Family have all left their mark on me: Nick, Roger & Glenn, John Gustafson and John McCoy, Bob Daisley, Paul Martinez and Neil Murray. Also bass players such as Jim Lea (Slade), Martin Turner (Wishbone Ash), Alan Lancaster (Status Quo) or Gene Simmons of KISS and, naturally, Paul McCartney and some Jack Bruce. I can emulate what Roger does, but his style is sometimes a little to well-behaved for me, I do like upfront bass players such as Glenn Hughes, Jim Lea and Martin Turner, I’m more a melodic and harmonic player than strictly a rhythmic one. I like it when the bass carries a melody like Jim Lea does here:
https://youtu.be/qysk6IgeFmQ
I did take lessons at one point from a fusion/jazz rock bassist, he didn’t influence my bass playing much though, but he gave me a solid foundation in music theory, circle of fifths, stuff like that. I know what I’m doing on bass, sometimes even a bit too much when I overthink stuff.
I haven’t gigged in the last two years or so, but that is because I’m without a band currently. My issue is that I really don’t enjoy playing in cover (or worse still: tribute) bands all that much, but at my age (64), all people still playing in bands want to do is cover well-known material or if they actually work on own material they prefer to do it in a home recording scenario, which bores me to tears, I like the musical communication and playing off each other in a band scenario. But I miss playing and really need to get off my arse and find a new band! A New Year’s resolution perhaps? 🤗
My style is by now pretty set, I’m a 70s era bass player who is rather busy and melodic in his playing (lots of thirds) by today’s standards and has, people tell me, very much a rock groove, sometimes hilariously so. I’m not really good at playing anything else.
December 6th, 2024 at 15:01@50
Thanks so much 😃
Oh nooo now you made me listen to Slade! 😉
Well, I do get your point regarding Lea! Didn’t he compose most of their music?
I truly hope you find another band 👏🏼
“or if they actually work on own material they prefer to do it in a home recording scenario, which bores me to tears,”
Well ok, but don’t most people need to practice a lot before presenting their new material?!
So John McCoy felt betrayed by Ian G, that’s really sad 😦
December 7th, 2024 at 10:40He certainly was an important member of Gillan, and yes he came around as a soft character, that was pretty obvious.
Big Ian’s position was of course that GILLAN simply wasn’t making enough money for him to keep it afloat any longer. Except for the UK (and of course that vast market Denmark, Karin!), GILLAN simply didn’t play large enough venues to make their incessant worldwide touring a money maker. Cracking America would have been crucial for that and GiLLAN didn’t have the look to grace the covers of Hit Parader and Creem – just take a look at how bands making it big in the US around that time like Loverboy, Foreigner, REO Speedwagon, Journey or Van Halen presented themselves.
Ultimately, Big Ian gave up a venture that was not making him enough or even costing him money, namely GILLAN, to take a very well-paid and risk-free job with Sabbath. That was understandable from his point of view, but so was the disappointment of the other GILLAN members who did not have that option. And I can understand Big Ian’s reticence in explaining to his GILLAN mates that he did not want to use his DP royalties to subsidize GILLAN forever.
John McCoy is a great bassist, but his appearance made it difficult for him to be integrated into any band subscribing to the “skinny rock star with long hair”-image. With his look, he would meet a lot less resistance with bands today than he did back then I believe.
December 8th, 2024 at 07:54@52
First of all: We LOVED Gillan in Denmark! No doubt about that 😍 ☺️
Second: of course I do also understand Ian G’s decision. My memory may play tricks with me, but wasn’t there also persistently rumours that Deep Purple and Ian G had an ongoing flirtatious talk about Ian G was allured returning to DP? And those rumours also could have been a reason why the other guys in Gillan didn’t feel confident about having their charming vocalist forever.
Third: I really enjoyed John McC’s playing 😃 he was charming and I often thought that he and Ian G was sharing equal attention. So I’m genuinely surprised JM didn’t find another band that could support his amazing charisma 😊 but maybe he needed to be in a safe spot?
Listening to Gillan and comparing them to Deep Purple, of course I can hear Gillan lacked a lot, but Gillan certainly had charms and were outgoing in their performances 🤩
Oh btw have I mentioned I am going to experience Ian Paice and Perpendicular in February? Would I prefer it was Ian G who will be doing the singing? Ohh yeah 😍 but hopefully DP returns to Denmark in ‘25.
December 8th, 2024 at 12:58GILLAN were lovably underground, neither Rainbow nor Whitesnake were that ever. But I think GILLAN’s rawer sound cost them market penetration in the US, people there didn’t know what quite to make of them.
December 8th, 2024 at 18:02Uwe # 43: You can be proud that you spelled both “their” and “they’re” correctly. How many people always get those ass-backwards?
December 8th, 2024 at 23:43@54
This song:
https://youtu.be/J9Buah4PWtc?si=CCUHzlILTspn5B-e
I hear another band in this, do you know who they were influenced by here?
December 9th, 2024 at 08:02(And if you dare say EP, I’ll find you and pour iced water over your sorry head 😄) (no of course I won’t!)
Janbl @49, I liked those links you posted of Japanese bands, that was good Power Pop and Melodic Metal and Lovebites obviously owe more than their name to Judas Priest! I don’t speak Japanese either, but I like the way it sounds when it is sung. Another positive thing is that these were all real bands playing live, not just K-Pop type boy bands miming to pre-recorded music.
Frater @55: I hear you, danke, but I chronically mess up with were/where/we’re or it’s/its and too/to all to(o) often to(o)! 😂
Karin, Colin Towns never writes something bad and ‘Long Gone’ is pleasant enough, but is sounds a bit forced to me, especially in the context of an album as dark, angry and frankly dejected as Magic: “Let’s have a positive, commercial tune here …”. The structure – a straight eights romps with a simplistic keyboard riff and lots of major chords reminds me a bit of this here
https://youtu.be/2k_dsQbL_l8
but I actually prefer what Legs Diamond did. It’s GILLAN’s attempt at Power Pop/AOR, but I think that genre is often handled better by American (even if Loverboy are Canadian, Rick Springfield Australian and Foreigner part-British!) acts.
https://youtu.be/dsgBpsNPQ50
https://youtu.be/j8CcTYsMHYU
https://youtu.be/BlRS7j8lK24
https://youtu.be/BlRS7j8lK24
https://youtu.be/CK6jKL2qWxo
John McCoy would attempt something similar with his intentionally overweight, but short-lived band Mammoth, that song was extremely tuneful:
https://youtu.be/Kvw_LNFP_1s
December 10th, 2024 at 00:22@57
Loverboy’s ‘Working for the weekend’ isn’t that bad, but oh they ought to have a stronger vocal! Then it would have been really neat 🥰
Autograph – is it Mutt Lange who produced? Sounds a lot like Def Leopard 😊 oh can see it’s Neil Kernon, well ok ☺️
KISS – oh man 😂 take away Gene’s tongue, what’s really left 😄
Foreigner ain’t half bad ☺️, I’ve actually never seen them before, in a video I mean. The vocalist has a pretty decent voice, but in my head I keep on hearing: “I wanna know what love is” – and that song is too cheesy 😆
Oh I know Mammoth! Didn’t know John M was a part of that.
He is really something 👍🏼 love his bass line 😌
Is he on the backing vocals?
He is a musician I would have liked to had a more prominent band. He is a very nice bassist 😊
The other day some of you made fun of her voice:
https://youtu.be/6cyHVZk74Jc?si=_iZMpWTrM2UcGhaI
December 10th, 2024 at 07:50But really, who else could sing this with so much passion? 🥰
Shamefully, I double-linked KISS @57, but forgot the eternal Australian heart-throb Rick S as an example of a Power Pop romp in eights and loads of major power chords …
https://youtu.be/nKi63FyPr1M
In this manosphere of a forum we have to cater for the few intrepid women who set foot here as well! 🤗
December 10th, 2024 at 08:50@59
Well what about this girlie:
https://youtu.be/eVvjKA22MYs?si=cE40L44jGyE5voBA
Or this one:
https://youtu.be/Fpu5a0Bl8eY?si=xTHYTCtfXRPjkC5k
Not to mention:
https://youtu.be/KUhBc35T-e4?si=xSm9DHBBERSQiu88
Or these:
December 10th, 2024 at 10:00https://youtu.be/SwYN7mTi6HM?si=hPaesiJNma5zoCwu
Ohh sorry, their hairdos confused me 😄
As far as I know, John McCoy never sang a note anyway.
Autograph wasn’t produced by Mutt Lange, but they sure wanted to sound that way! 😂
There was a time in the 80s when Lou Gramm was perceived as the benchmark of AOR singing, able to go really high, but still sound gritty and not like a woman, but not too distorted and screams either. His voice was no doubt on Ritchie’s mind when he severed ties with RJD and he eventually found Joe Lynn Turner as an approximation. Pete Goalby of Trapeze/almost Rainbow/Uriah Heep was an unabashed Lou Gramm fan too.
Stevie Nicks can of course sing, she’s just not very variable with her nasal delivery somewhere between rock, folk and country. But it doesn’t matter, her voice is charming and she’s Stevie Nicks after all. Fleetwood Mac were a musically interesting band (not just for the romantic drama) and had three strong lead singers and songwriters with Lindsey, Christine and Stevie, yet managed an immediately identifiable group sound, no mean feat. I’ve seen them live twice, I would never say a bad word about them. Lindsey Buckingham is pretty much a musical genius to me, highly neurotic, but a genius.
December 10th, 2024 at 15:30@61
“ Autograph wasn’t produced by Mutt Lange, but they sure wanted to sound that way! 😂” <- and they really did! Was Shania Twain and Def Leopard the only well known acts Mutt Lange had his producing-fingers in?
“Stevie Nicks can of course sing” <- yeah she can! Or could, I don’t know how she sounds these days.
And yes, Lindsey Buckingham was really something! The group was really something too when they were together, guess that’s why they handled their love-triangles the best they could, because each person knew they wouldn’t be anyone alone. Have had to be awful anyway 😖
By the way, Peter Green made this fantastic tune “Oh Well”, which Deep Purple made on “Turning to crime”, and I really love their performance 🤩
December 10th, 2024 at 21:29And then I saw this guy:
https://youtu.be/H34Uc9JWECQ?si=JPngy2zRbLm_890I
It is a charming band, but Tom P’s voice was no near strong enough to carry that tune. (imho)
@60: All fine except Shania, not because of her singing, but because of that god-awful oof-duh oof-duh Euro Energy Disco beat, whenever I hear that, I stop listening unless it’s Right Said Fred
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqKch5u5abU
and that only because it was the favorite song of my son when he was seven years old! He drove us mad with it. 😁
Nena doesn’t really have a rock voice, but it wasn’t Schlager either, it was/is very typical of her, I’ve always liked her (before she started saying nonsensical stuff about COVID). Stevie Nicks we’ve mentioned before though I do prefer her with Fleetwood Mac rather than solo. And when Jump came out, I knew it was gonna be a huge hit.
You thought Van Halen looked feminine? Try these guys/girls …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxS7o7VkdKQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCChxBSRo1Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e18D14X9Ii0
As David Coverdale once quipped, by the late 80s it was hard to tell the bands apart from their groupies/girlfriends!
December 10th, 2024 at 22:14@62: Speaking of Oh Well… and people saying young people don’t play good music anymore, this is a favorite of mine:
https://youtu.be/VikyxJoBF2k?si=6KHtZaCBMZ3_BgNq
December 10th, 2024 at 22:58Bet Ritchie would like the music of this artiste, Rosalie Cunningham. A touch of his favorite, Jethro Tull, can be heard in her sound. Which she mixes with other prog-rock/ hard rock / folk-rock influences to create something really distinctive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YehoejPll8&list=RDEM71BufWZpq5YI695VOCH1Xw&start_radio=1
Just missed her Swedish dates this year. Will hope to catch her next time.
@54 – Uwe, something must have cost Gillan market penetration in the US. Certainly never once heard a Gillan record on the radio or in a record store on the other side of the Atlantic, or knew anyone who bought one. Whereas Rainbow had an impact right from their debut, and Whitesnake, though slower to catch on, started receiving airplay as early as “Wine Women And Song”. Before hitting the stratosphere, starting with “Slow And Easy”.
But was it because of the”rawer sound”?
My school chums and I were instantly turned off by the fact that IG’s first LP not only used up half a side on a re-recording of “Child In Time” but was titled after the song as well. After several years away from the music business, coming back with a re-recording of something we’d already heard hundreds of times before seemed a sign of creative bankruptcy.
With all the exciting punk rock happening at the time, not to mention Scorpions, Rainbow, Judas Priest etc… We kind of wrote Gillan off and took no interest in his further doings.
December 11th, 2024 at 03:29@64
December 11th, 2024 at 07:35Listened carefully (twice actually ☺️) and I’m impressed!
Of course they lack some power in the vocal, but their attitude is ok 😃
@63
🤣 if only the two brothers in Right said Fred had a tiny more self-confidence…. (Ironi kan forekomme ☺️)
Nena? Covid 19? What was that all about?
No I really don’t found Van Halen feminine at all, your examples on the other hand 🫣🤭
December 11th, 2024 at 07:43Please listen to this guys:
https://youtu.be/ziISNxMCC3M?si=75eZ2TaASTTJn5U-
I always get a “western-movie” feeling in the riff!
December 11th, 2024 at 11:13I somehow expect to see John Wayne come galloping on Banner 😄
@65 An interesting point, Skippy! I remember that Child In Time the album turned me off too. But that changed dramatically with the arrival of Clear Air Turbulence, a favourite of mine to this day. CIT was kinda half a**ed I feel. And the sound was dull. CAT on the other hand … great jazz rock if not really commercial in any way. And so noone seemed to listen. A pity. But starting with Mr. Universe Gillan the band put on a series of hard rocking almost NWOBHM-sounding albums with some memorable tunes thrown in. But I guess Uwe was right: wrong looks and a tinny sound. On the other hand: Did Maiden and Saxon really look THAT good? I mean, IG and Tormé looked the part and McCoy was a treat. And they sure put on a show. So I don’t really know what kept them from making it big time. Might be an air of not taking themselves too seriously… a deadly sin in that scene I’m afraid. Dio and RB llook ridiculous these days with al their pathos and drama while Gillan are still fun … but back then Rainbow drew bigger crowds. And I stand guilty too. RB on stage just could not be surpassed. As hard as Bernie Tormé might have tried to emulate him and Hendrix with a bit of punk thrown in.
December 11th, 2024 at 11:18Svante @64: And I thought I was the only person who knew and liked the Sisters Haim! Though to be fair: Their songs on their CD are a lot more pop than that (technically not ultra-proficient, but coming from the heart) fine cover of Oh Well would indicate.
More Oh Well versions here:
For KARIN, who seems to have discovered her love for bald, overweight bassists with a gentle heart:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-MaCp9BiDQ
***************************************************************************
For GREGSTER, who seems to boycott this forum now, PLEASE COME BACK, YOU MAY CONTINUE TO CLAIM THAT RITCHIE CAN’T PLAY SHIT AND THAT GLENN IS TO BLAME FOR EVERYTHING BAD WITH Mk III & IV:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ4DQ8Svk4U
[Even Hughes haters should admit that he performs (oh) well here, very Trapeze’ish.]
***************************************************************************
For KARIN once more, Lindsay/Stevie era Fleetwood Mac doing Oh Well in the 70s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZFM9iHJXyg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heC_FoP7RQ4
And more recently, with that slightly frantic/disturbed edge only Lindsey Buckingham can give the song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoJy3LlNPMA
***************************************************************************
Aero Top aka ZZ Smith doing it with even an audible organ and Herr Fleetwood on the drums:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivulWrZQCeI
Say what you will, but Tyler was a great singer and front man.
December 11th, 2024 at 18:50@70: Judging from that video, there seems to be several thousand more than us two that know the band. 🙂
December 11th, 2024 at 20:15Svante: I meant here among our DP brethren of course!
***************************************************************************
Skippy: IGB and GILLAN were two radically different bands. I like all three albums by IGB though CIT is a bit tame in sound – that Pink Floyd’ish CIT (the song) version they did, I actually liked. What followed – CAT, Scarabus & Live At Budokan – I thought great.
If I’m not mistaken, even IGB did ‘better’ in the US (they did a lengthy tour with Nazareth as their openers and also package gigs with Thin Lizzy and Ted Nugent, not great combinations, but still …) than GILLAN or at least not as abysmally bad.
The GILLAN recordings just weren’t made to sound good on FM radio. They sounded abrasive, underproduced like demos or monitor mixes, Future Shock even sounded outright tinny, I can’t stand the sonics of that release though some of the material isn’t bad. That raw approach had its charm, but I think Americans like their music with a more refined production.
The often frantic/punkish speeds, Gillan’s off-the-wall and culturally very British humor, the deconstructivist approach to the music and Colin Towns’ twelve-tone-jazz-leanings sprinkled in plus Tormé’s too punk for heavy metal/too heavy metal for punk-image, I think it was all a bit much for US audiences (and Germany didn’t catch on either, that is saying something, given how much a die hard Purple fandom nation we are). Looking back, GILLAN and IGB certainly recorded the most interesting, edgy and daring music, both Rainbow and Whitesnake were conservative in their musical approach and careful not to demand too much from Purple fans.
BTW, I really like Rosalie Cunningham’s “witches’ brew psychedelic music”, both solo and with her band Purson. I have a soft spot for outré women artists that defy expectations, St Vincent is another one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTg4WKcOJ3g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPo9VmeeYGw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7EuON7COEw
***************************************************************************
“Were Shania Twain and Def Leopard the only well-known acts Mutt Lange had his producing-fingers in?”
Nope. Also all these mega-sellers here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l482T0yNkeo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lcb-Fsx_phM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dWmKSj5HjI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo2qQmj0_h4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuZA6qiJVfU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAfxs0IDeMs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0Kv6vxZwL8
Like him or not, he was probably the most influential rock producer of the 80s. And he always had a thing with the women he produced, before Shania, his wife was Stevie Lange
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbsA3VLlA8o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my52k5X2HCY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKfmURgAQlo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8g5brGJaIg
December 11th, 2024 at 22:03@70
“ For KARIN, who seems to have discovered her love for bald, overweight bassists with a gentle heart:” <- love is such a strong word Uwe! I am fond of JM’s playing, and yes he seems to be gentle, that’s it 😉
“ And more recently, with that slightly frantic/disturbed edge only Lindsey Buckingham can give the song:” <- yeah he is amazing 😊
December 12th, 2024 at 06:23But he is certainly no Ian Gillan! 😉
@72
December 12th, 2024 at 06:27“ Were Shania Twain and Def Leopard the only well-known acts Mutt Lange had his producing-fingers in?”
Nope. Also all these mega-sellers here:” <- I had no idea mr Mutt produced AC/DC!
Oh haven’t listened to the Cars for a long time! Thanks for the links 😃
I’m an absolute The Cars fan, I really liked their quirky New Wave power pop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTVzRfZEiAM
Touch & Go is to me one of the most brilliant and cleverly constructed pop songs ever, weird, but fascinating verse (with drums and bass playing different meters from the rest of the band, but it all coalescing) and then that liberating bridge leading to the earworm chorus citing 50s rock’n’roll. Plus two brilliant guitar solos, Elliot Easton was sooooo underrated. Also a band that could do proper backing vocals live, most Yank bands actually can (with the notable exception of KISS!), it’s an American art.
December 12th, 2024 at 12:57Mutt produced the three most successful albums of AC/DC, the two most successful ones of Def Leppard, the most successful ones of Foreigner, The Cars and Shania Twain. He made Australian street urchins commercially accessible and wiped Foreigner of their initial prog influences + turned a Sheffield garage band into the sonic wonder that was Def Leppard in the 80s, being a hard taskmaster as he is with any band.
His humble beginnings were with a South African band called Hocus, both he and his first wife Stevie, nee Stevie van Kerken, were born and raised in Africa. These tracks are fron 1971 and 1972, respectively, they would move to Europe later on:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxKfqoauU68
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghv9hMD__aM
I detect a lot of Hollies and Middle of the Road in the Hocus sound, you can already hear that melody is important to young Robert John “Mutt” Lange who wrote the songs.
It’s a recurring theme in his life that he propels acts to international success, but then they sever ties with him eventually because they find him too overshadowing and dominating in the studio. Yet without him, they never repeat the successes they had with him.
December 12th, 2024 at 16:05@76
December 13th, 2024 at 17:57So Mutt’s wife was that girl who sang with Brian Connolly in that awful song, Lettres d’amour!
Yup, liebe Karin.
And here she is with that organ player from Uriah Heep (I think) or some other interchangeable hard rock outfit, whatever:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA3rQT2aSUQ&pp=ygUiTGV0IG1lIG1ha2Ugc29tZXRoaW5nIGluIHlvdXIgbGlmZQ%3D%3D
I really like her as a singer. Not as plastic as her successoress. 😈
December 14th, 2024 at 14:22@78
“ Not as plastic as her successoress. 😈”
Are you thinking of this beauty?
https://youtu.be/ZJL4UGSbeFg?si=4lQ7DY0aW2ggflxa
December 16th, 2024 at 10:15Oh that song in particular is horrible, Karin I can’t stand that fake brass synth sound, sorry. That music is truly plastic, the fake horn sound cheesy.
Surely, both Mutt and his then wife had the money to get in a proper horn section and do something organic with it? Like the little guy from Minneapolis did here, at 03:17, “horns down please” …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfHsF6FKgb4&list=PLZ6ju-ex49cFSqDz6x5omF7Zvut16AR1E
To the defense of Shania, we’re not talking ‘plastic surgery’ here (and the plastic sound of some of her recordings wasn’t so much her as Mutt’s fault), she has ruled that our for herself, which for a woman in her show biz position is an incredibly brave step, respect!
https://country1037fm.com/2023/01/31/shania-twain-will-not-get-plastic-surgery/
I’d like her to do a stripped down C&W/Bluegrass album, just an acoustic guitar, perhaps a fiddle and her. Rick Rubin to the rescue!
December 16th, 2024 at 17:43Seem to recall Shania freely admitting, 20+ years ago, that her records were not about art but commerce. Everything, from songs to image to videos, calculated to generate as much revenue as possible.
Not surprising given her impoverished childhood and the loss of both parents in a car crash when she was quite young. At which point she took on the task of raising her younger siblings.
She definitely achieved what she set out to accomplish!
December 17th, 2024 at 04:31@80
“ Like the little guy from Minneapolis did here, at 03:17, “horns down please” …”
Arrrhhh, I know what you mean!
I liked his voice, his genius and his undoubtedly great sense of musicality, but ohhh he was too much trying to impress! Had it anything to do with his poor height?
On the other hand, in this he is completely wonderful! Please watch this to the end and acknowledge his different approach to the worship he was used to:
https://youtu.be/dWRCooFKk3c?si=EFMXmdA-JSq8vjVX
Just tossing his guitar to the crowd and walking of the set like that! Ohh man 😄
Shania isn’t my favourite singer, and no I really don’t appreciate her records, there are a few of the old tunes I really like, but you’re right, it’s too commercial, too ‘plastic’ ( no not her, the music).
Could she have told her then-husband: “I want another approach”?
I don’t know..
“ is an incredibly brave step, respect” – regarding no plastic surgery! 😝 come on! It’s completely obvious she has had something ‘done’ (remember she had Lyme disease and was pretty beaten by that 🥺)
December 17th, 2024 at 08:44I don’t really care if people end up like caricatures of their former selves, what I don’t like is when they yell out loud: “no I haven’t had anything done! I’m just eating kale and drinking purified water” 🤭
“Everything, from songs to image to videos, calculated to generate as much revenue as possible.”
Yes, calculated, that is a very good way of putting it, Skippy. I didn’t know about her childhood past, might very well be an explanation, all power to her.
I do remember reading an interview of her with a music magazine where she flabbergasted the interviewer with her intimate knowledge of acoustic guitars, really going into detail why she was playing certain brands and types. And it got to the point where the interviewer complimented her on her knowledge and she deadpanned good-naturedly: “I know, you expected me to say something like: “I like to play the ones with a hole in the middle and of a certain color.” when you asked me about my favorite guitar, but women can be guitar gear nerds too!” That was very perceptive of her. 🤣
I don’t think Shania is talentless, just underselling herself in quality (rather than quantity, I think her Come On Over album is still the most sold C&W album ever though some real C&W diehards would probably pull their nose at calling it country).
Mutt Lange is a production artist, but at one point his bag of tricks becomes a straight-jacket for artists. When I heard my first Shania Twain song, I almost fell off the chair laughing because of the tell-tale Def Leppard drum sound on a country pop song. It stood out like a sore thumb. But a year later or so, a lot of New Country songs from other producers emulated the same drum sound.
December 17th, 2024 at 13:18That iconic performance of Prince soloing over While My Guitar Gently Weeps you sought out, Karin (good choice and taste!), just goes to show what a brilliant guitarist he was. Prince was pure musicality. And of course he was a little guy clamoring for attention and validation, but we’re all driven by something. Lost to opioids, what a waste.
I have no idea what Shania had done or not done to her face and “no plastic surgery” doesn’t of course mean you’re not botoxing or using fillers, but for her line of work it seems to me that she is not overtly trying to create the illusion of an eternally youthful look. There are a lot of worse culprits out there. Re preservation of an unnatural state (i.e. miraculously NOT aging), women are certainly in a most unenviable position with our current cultural expectations.
December 17th, 2024 at 14:37@84
“Lost to opioids, what a waste.”
What a waste indeed.
Wasn’t it something with a bad hip that was the main cause of the opioid use?
No matter what, he was amazing 😻
“miraculously NOT aging”
I really don’t care what people are doing to themselves! Hopefully people are grownups when they’re doing whatever they’re doing and therefore outside the pedagogical reach.
What I don’t like is the claim of “just eating very healthy and thinking positive”😂
As mr Gillan says, according to the lovely song ‘Pictures of you’:
December 18th, 2024 at 08:39“ the early days of photography there was a saying, expressed by my grandfather as a truism, ‘The Camera neve lies’. Not entirely accurate but good enough by comparison with today, when ‘the camera’ frequently does nothing but lie. In collaboration with creams, scalpels and partial paralysis caused by botulinum neurotoxin, Photoshop can put a mongrel on the front cover of Slickeroo, the mag for thoroughbreds. Being one myself, I’ve always been attracted to mongrels, so I prefer ‘the real thing’; you are beautiful, be what you are.”
– couldn’t agree more!
That’s a nice Gillan quote, Karin!
“just eating very healthy and thinking positive” 😂 That is akin to models saying they “never diet”. I knew one via my son, skinny as she already was, she would starve herself before any catwalk fashion show and photo shooting. But she was at least honest about it and would then eat regularly again (vegan of course) after the show/shooting. That and smoking cigarettes to stay slim.
December 18th, 2024 at 17:04@86
Well mr Gillan is the quote meister 😍
That’s really sad: “ That and smoking cigarettes to stay slim.”
December 19th, 2024 at 07:33Hope those girls learn to have some self preservation.
@ 86 – that sounds a little like Patsy from Absolutely Fabulous. Although she hadn’t eaten anything since 1973/4 apparently, as she often reminded Edwina.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V20-HfxT0lI&t=3s
https://www.tiktok.com/@bestoffrenchnsaunders/video/7213354794864430342
December 19th, 2024 at 08:36@88
December 23rd, 2024 at 10:28Yeah they are hilarious 😆
Hope they know coffee contains very few calories 😉