![[hand]](/hs-pics/portraits/hands/gillan4.jpg)
![[face]](/hs-pics/portraits/faces/mcbride5.jpg)
Problems piling up for þe olde ‘snake
David Coverdale has appeared on the October 11 episode of the Trunk Nation show on satellite radio. The show might eventually be posted as a podcast on Eddie Trunk’s website (we just don’t know when). In the meanwhile, here are some quotes of what he said regarding the state of Whitesnake after the forced tour cancellation last year:
There is still a Whitesnake and there are still offers coming. I can’t entertain anything (performing live) until I get my physical aspect together. I had a fall recently, which I don’t think helped my… I’ve got two torn rotator cuffs, which would certainly compromise my performance, but arthritis (and) all this kind of stuff’s kicking in. It’s so awful, getting older and having this burden of responsibility to try to be as good as you can so you don’t disappoint anybody. But I can’t commit to anything until I know how my health is. The last thing I wanna do is go on tour and have to do what happened last year, which was come home, tail between my legs. It was heartbreaking, and being sick for a year didn’t really help matters.
My heart goes out to Steven [Tyler] after the [recent AEROSMITH tour] cancellation. It’s so awful, getting older and having this burden of responsibility to try to be as good as you can, so you don’t disappoint anybody. And I know how he feels, and I sent my love to him through our friends, mutual friends.
Thanks to BraveWords and Blabbermouth for the transcriptions.
Unauthorized copying, while sometimes necessary, is never as good as the real thing
Alas!, I hope David gets well, but not well enough to take up the idea of fronting the Whitesnake juggernaut again. Will someone (Cindy!) tell him please that at his age and with his past career, working rotator cuffs and flinging the mic stand is no longer where it’s at and should not be his greatest concern? Why don’t you just cure your voice, stick to your baritone, take out a drummer with a small kit, a bassist, a keyboarder and ONE guitarist who all can sing and maybe a small horn section out on the road and do that “half-assed standing-there stuff” you seem to fear so much? Imagine if people came out just to hear your voice? I can envisage a David Coverdale on a bar stool telling a few stories between songs from his whole career (with dropped keys) just fine. You could do smaller halls with decent acoustics too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofQcvPezclk
October 13th, 2023 at 03:13@ 1
October 13th, 2023 at 07:34Add one or two female background singers and I am all for it! Even an all acoustic set would be fine. Most of his followers are at a certain age and wouldn’t mind an evening sitting in a theatre and a morning after without ringing ears anyway.
There are a lot of people in this world who are unfortunately suffering much more than old Cov’s. Time Coverdale, leave it alone.
October 13th, 2023 at 07:43@3 Fully agree. One needs to have a sense of when it is time to hang it up.
To me it is also part of a bigger issue. We all know that musically 1960-80s were a great time and the musicians who cut their teeth back then are a great bunch. Hey, we are in a DP community, after all, and we all love it when our boys release a new platter and go on another tour!
That said, there are two issues. First, some people, like good ole’ DC just don’t know when enough is enough and keep that sad tradition of canceled shows, poor performances etc. And second, the dominance of boomer performers impedes the development of the music. They still sell out venues, and top the charts and rule the FM radio. I do have a sense that it stops some new bands from climbing to the top. At the recent Power Trip festival there were AC/DC, Tool, Maiden, GNR, Metallica and Priest. Hmm… They could have had the same line up 30 years ago and teens still would have bought all the tickets. Three decades on, and we have same people on stage, only now with bigger bellies and less hair. Isn’t it about time for some folks just to quietly quit?
October 13th, 2023 at 11:13Yo,
I say go-for-it, there’s nothing-to-lose…
DC also seems to have lost some confidence too, since he’s awaiting doctors advice on what to do…If you don’t know yourself & your body by his age, there’s going to be more hidden troubles that will appear in time.
The Rolling Stones are still at it, & they even delivered a new album in recent weeks gone by…And just because Charlie’s moved-on, doesn’t mean that they won’t continue touring when they feel like it.
Peace !
October 13th, 2023 at 12:31In response to #1, I believe one of the reasons he keeps the WS juggernaut going is because it’s a lot easier to hide vocally beneath bombast than it would be fronting a small piece band in a theater. In that setting, his voice would be open for even more scrutiny as he would have been required to carry a heavier load himself without all those backing singers. I don’t think he would be very keen on that. Along with Bob Catley of Magnum, DC is one of the more restricted singers there is in terms of being able to stretch melodies. I see two paths ahead. Either to remain a custodian of the back catalogue a la Jimmy Page, although DC’s already released gold editions of all albums except for the latest one, Flesh & Blood. This leaves one path other than overseeing his real estate portfolio. A spoken word tour where he is interviewed about past achievements. I wouldn’t buy a ticket but many probably would and it would allow him to talk uninterrupted for even longer than in normal interviews 🙂
October 14th, 2023 at 04:27#4: How are Boomer performers “impeding the development of music”?? The fact is, the older bands (at least many of them) are just better. Music of the 60s & 70s is better and more creative than what newer bands are doing now. The best new music I’ve heard is from old bands that keep playing. Also, as Robbie Krieger so rightly put it in his autobiography, the current recording technology keeps the bands from being as creative as they would be if left to their own devices. Also, the record companies’ control of output doesn’t exactly help…
October 14th, 2023 at 04:37@6…
I suggest that why some people here would like to see DC doing an acoustic gig, is so that the little-bit-of-voice that he does have left, could sustain a tour if sung softly…
Your idea of a World Tour doing potentially a Q&A show is not a bad one, in fact, Geddy Lee is more-or-less doing just that, for the second-time around…First time was for his release of “The big book of bass”, & now, for his own autobiography, “My effin’ life” lol.
Peace !
October 14th, 2023 at 10:26“In response to #1, I believe one of the reasons he keeps the WS juggernaut going is because it’s a lot easier to hide vocally beneath bombast than it would be fronting a small piece band in a theater. In that setting, his voice would be open for even more scrutiny as he would have been required to carry a heavier load himself without all those backing singers. I don’t think he would be very keen on that.”
All very valid points, Daniel. He would have to cut corners, talk over the (severely down-tuned) music and maybe take more of a Tom Waits/old Frank Sinatra approach. Which would be fine with me, I find Coverdale’s voice, when it’s relaxed, so expressive, he doesn’t have to do much for me. He didn’t do that much when he was with Purple or in the initial Whitesnake years, all those vocal gyrations came in later.
David was never an Ian Gillan, he was best when he did little (I never even liked his occasional screaming with Purple, I found it pointless, he was never a good screamer like Big Ian or Robert Halford were) and let simply the beautiful tone of his semi-baritone do the talking/singing. Glenn was after all always there to take care of the vocal acrobatics (and happily did so) – in that regard the two were a match made in heaven.
October 14th, 2023 at 15:02I agree they were a vocal match made in heaven and a ballsy move on RB’s part, even if it didn’t last long. Their unison lines and tone of their voices in songs like Sail Away etc. Beautiful. And then you listen to IG on WDWTA and he’s even better 😉 Says a lot about the quality level they had in the early to mid 70s.
October 15th, 2023 at 06:46He should have a look at Johnny Cash and what he did with Rick Rubin. A complete re-invention, allowing the Cash voice to do what it does… vocally there are similarities. David has nothing to prove now. Try singing and doing the stuff that inspired him originally. Those Purple audition songs on the new Purple Album are the key to what he should do next.
October 16th, 2023 at 08:05Here it is, David’s long believed lost audition tape to DP, I had frankly expected a much less professional performance/quality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMl13GrrtmE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQSrhZnrFSk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG34RLDeviw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CACIz3VPR8
And here are his ideas/demos for Stormbringer, some of it would surface on his first two solo albums:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bueQG3IIhxM
Enjoy & comment!
October 17th, 2023 at 02:24I enjoyed the ‘solo’ demos & songs of the ‘Stormbringer’ material. That opening folk one, so many vocalists at the beginning really had that natural naive timbre to their voice, wonderful. Before the adrenalin of loud rock music in certain ways ruins it all. Well not all but the louder the harder the less natural to my ears. Maybe it is me at this stage of my life. If someone had played me that 50 years ago I would have been very dismissive of it. Today it sounds quite nice, the only bit that reminded of what was to come was the second ‘baby, baby, baby’ vocal piece, otherwise that Stormbriger one is rather good right through. I am not fond of Everybody’s Talking or Dancin in the Street, that style definitely doesn’t suit a young or old Cov’s. Thanks for the link, interesting to hear all the same. Cheers.
October 17th, 2023 at 09:27@7 Some people tend to think there’d been nothing before the classic rock, sometimes same people think there’s been nothing after. We’ll there’s been plenty of great bands in the recent decades: System of A Down, Gojira, the Mars Volta, to name just a few. In my book they are equal to all the greats, music wise. Yet they never stood a chance of being as commercially successful as the 1960-80s bunch. That happened because the recording industry, which had been shamelessly ripping off classic rock artists before, discovered that making peace with them and making money off their back catalogues complemented with mammoth stadium tours was way more profitable. And what happened was the classic rock clogged the development of music. Well, business being business, they sell what brings most profit. But then the artists themselves were not quite eager to promote young guns. Gone are the days when the DP lads helped Elf get a contract and produced their record. These days the Woodstock generation is only busy amassing millions after millions at the expense of the next generations. When I attended Ozzfest back in 1998, they had up and coming bands on the bill. The Power Trip this year only had aged headliners, bathing in their past glories. Retirement home, really.
October 17th, 2023 at 12:02I had no idea that David’s legendary audition tape and his first two solo albums after the Purple-split were so close to each other in mood, feel, sound and style. He basically picked up in 1977 where he had left off in 1973, with only a better production, his own songwriting and a little DP-typical brawn added. In that regard, “White Snake” (the album) and “Northwinds” were not so much just a radical departure from the Purple sound, but a temporary return to the music he had favored and played in Saltburn-by-the-Sea/Redcar.
And what you also hear on those recordings is that a young DC very likely listened to a lot more, say, David Clayton-Thomas (lead singer of Blood, Sweat & Tears) than Ian Gillan, David Byron, Ozzy Osbourne or Robert Plant; he was in a totally different musical environment, very much more under an American influence too.
https://media.tenor.com/4b-QWazP5kMAAAAC/fascinating-spock.gif
He really was an unlikely choice. Kudos to Purple for being so brave (and so open-minded!) to choose him of all people. It also shows how much they (or Ritchie) wanted to get away from the trademark Mk II sound.
That this stuff has now come up and seen a release after half a century – thank you Mrs Coverdale wherever you are
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/david-and-his-mom–50102614593802703/ –
is a treasure find of no less than Indiana Jones-proportions in the Purple Universe!
https://media.tenor.com/dfEhs4LykioAAAAC/indiana-jones-the-last-crusade.gif
October 17th, 2023 at 14:49The demos/ideas for Stormbringer (you can hear the origins of ‘You Can’t Do It Right (With The One You Love)’ and of ‘Only My Soul’ which was already penned in Purple days) are revelatory too. They show how absolutely IMMERSED David was in all kinds of Black Music back then – it wasn’t just Glenn who was pushing Mk III into that direction. Had all those ideas been developed further (and not vetoed by Ritchie?), Stormbringer would have been an even blacker album than it already is.
History needs to be rewritten! ; – )
October 17th, 2023 at 15:17Georgivs @14, your hypothesis
‘And what happened was that classic rock clogged the development of music.’
is not entirely without merit, but is it really that simple?
Aging “classic” bands just continue with what they do because they have no better “day jobs” to go back to, nothing else to do and/or because they need the money. They also have a reliable and by now largely economically safe to affluent constituency that buys their overpriced tickets and also the umpteenth repackaging/remastering of their past work in a heavy little box for old-fashioned haptic enjoyment in an otherwise more and more virtual and streaming world. Look at me, I’m one of them, any media company’s that still produces CDs wet dream. (As I write, I’m listening to a newish Babe Ruth – the 70ies band – boxed set: Who would have thought in 1973 that a clamshell box of freshly printed CDs of an obscure act like Babe Ruth would still find a buyer 50 years later?)
But, but, but: For people who were adolescents in the 60ies, 70ies and 80ies, pop and rock music was largely the dominant art form/entertainment in their life. I think that has changed, young people today spend more people messaging, on Instagram and playing computer games than spending the afternoon working through a triple album like, say, Yessongs. We just didn’t have the access to stuff they have today, so we spent more time on music. And in a lot of cases that created lifelong bonds, just look at this veterans’ home of a forum here. We’re holding candles to a band that was – let’s face it – last relevant and contemporary in the early 70ies. Purple became corporate by Machine Head and have been peddling nostalgia as not the sole, but as a main or at least substantial ingredient of their commercial attraction since their 1984 reunion. There is no point denying that.
True, record companies are not as patient anymore in building up artists (streaming sales are also a lot less reliable than record, tape and CD-sales ever where), but on the other hand young artists today can record cheaply at hitherto unimaginable quality and market their stuff worldwide via a click on their laptop/tablet. They just don’t find an audience as loyal and committed to their music (though there are exceptions like Taylor Swift who is a phenomenon) as it used to be in the 60ies, 70ies and 80ies. Maybe, just maybe, downloading or streaming a song doesn’t engender the same lasting emotional attachment as the smell of fresh vinyl or leafing through a CD booklet with lots of info on the artist.
Also, a good deal of younger bands go out of their way to sound old-fashioned; all this obsession with vintage gear and sounds. “Boomer music” can be an insult, but it also seems to be a source of never-ending fascination for young people; an act like Greta van Fleet is just the extreme and overt tip of the iceberg. I see it with my son (born 1994), he started out with Eminem and Korn as a kid and has now arrived at Delta Blues and Hank Williams recordings from nearly a century go, the original source material so to say. That predisposition to the music of older generations was pretty much unheard of when we were youths, yet it is prevalent today. And I don’t see how that is in any way steered by the dark machinations of big bad music entertainment media companies. I rather believe that we are seeing the results of a younger generation having grown up in a largely liberal parental environment where the need to “define yourself away” from what your parents like and do wasn’t as strongly felt. My son and I can discuss Son House
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdgrQoZHnNY ,
that was unfathomable between my (for the times rather liberal) dad and me.
End of sociological ramblings!
October 17th, 2023 at 17:03@ 14 – I agree in so many ways with your comments, however as we are unfortunately aware it is the ‘way of things’ these days with corporate filth & marketing manufactured hype etc etc. I loathe it big time, call me old fashioned. @ 17 – good post Uwe until later on ‘And I don’t see how that is in any way steered by the dark machinations of big bad music entertainment media companies’. Oh yes it is & some. Manufactured falseness with only one thing in mind, lusting after the ‘filthy lucre’. It isn’t only music that is affected by this disease & poison. People use to make up their own minds much more back in the day & yes they had less distractions to get in the way. However these days the ‘filth’ have it all sown up, in regards to the big corporate take over of things. I digress or I don’t want to go there any further. It is a repeated rave & many of the performers are to blame in so many ways, they don’t have to perform at those gala over the top events, they choose to. So yes you are correct in a certain sense, it isn’t all the companies fault I suppose. If these acts told them to sod off either the event wouldn’t happen, or the organisers would have to get other artists in. But then again the lucre may not be as ginormous, so they may not be interested. Anyway all good points in airing our ‘grievances’. I was surprised though that Iron Maiden were at that open air thing, they always came across to me as being a little more ‘down to earth’ so to speak. Not as corporate if you know what I mean. Cheers.
October 17th, 2023 at 20:42@15…Leiber Uwe said…qt.”It also shows how much they (or Ritchie) wanted to get away from the trademark Mk II sound”.
Are you sure about that comment Herr Uwe ???
IG handed in his own resignation, since no one would listen or talk to him to change his mind, & he’s on film indicating that part of his reason for leaving was that he wanted the band to expand on its musical prowess, as he felt it was stagnating, & didn’t want to be repeating on old formulas…
If we take a quick glimpse at the almighty “Burn”, it’s like a part-2 follow-on of “Machine Head” in its directness, & yet adds some funky elements back into the music like from “Fireball”…
We now know that IG & RB wanted to steer the band, but every ship can only have one Captain, & RB won-out on this occasion, securely fastening the Captains hat in place (until Glenn Hughes messed everything-up for everyone ). And apart from having his way with a new-deal & contract awarded to him from management, the band went on successfully going on from the tried & tested formula of heavy DP song writing, with perhaps the only change being more tunes added to the albums ( Burn has 8 x tunes instead of the regular 7-tunes found on the preceding 4-albums, & Stormbringer has 9 x tunes ).
I suggest that RB liked & lived the DP sound & formula, & Burn was delivered in part to indicate to IG that the old sound still had much life & success to it, but decided to leave when Glenn & the “shoe-shine” music won preference within the band. I like Burn, & I like Stormbringer, but if I were RB under those circumstances, I would have left too.
Peace !
October 18th, 2023 at 05:26Here is a link to an interesting guy by the name of Ted Gioia who Rick Beato interviewed a few years ago. His take on certain aspects of the record companies & media & entertainment industries & music in general. Many many articles, interviews etc from him. A musician & author among other things, a very interesting chap indeed. The Rick Beato interview would be on t his site no doubt.Cheers.
http://tedgioia.com/
https://www.thedailybeast.com/tupac-shakur-michael-jackson-hatsune-miku-whitney-houston-and-elvis-dead-artists-are-killing-it-in-music
October 18th, 2023 at 07:21Here is the interview with Rick Beato & Ted Gioia, fascinating & frightening in ways, well to anyone who isn’t aware of what is going on. A warning on the future of music. Is old music killing new music is just one of many topics, only a little over one hour in total. Cheers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM4sEl8avug
October 18th, 2023 at 09:14@17
Very insightful. This is a very good analysis of the changing times and the difference in the way that today’s kids perceive music compared to us older folks, both in purely musical terms and as a sociological phenomenon. Basically, this issue is just my personal rant that boils down to a few things. 1) Bring young musicians on! 2) 16 year old kids in Metallica, AC/DC and Nirvana T-shirts look silly. 3) DC may know better what to do with his voice than just revisiting old stuff. Listen to recent Michael Chapman records to see how one can adapt his music to the voice that no longer has the previous range.
October 18th, 2023 at 11:52“Are you sure about that comment Herr Uwe ???”
Ziemlich, you doubting ‘roo!
1. Ian left of his own accord, true, but he also saw the writing on the wall and Ritchie’s growing disenchantment with his vocal style. Ritchie’s session with a baritone singer like Phil Lynott, his infatuation with Free/Paul Rodgers, the strife about Ian’s vocal lines during the recording of WDWTWA – all that was gnawing away. Ian wasn’t having any of it anymore, but knew that Ritchie was part of the (then) seemingly unbreakable DP triumvirate. Add to that how Ritchie is at his heart a conservative musician while Ian wanted to stretch out musically and generally give different things a try (Fireball is his favorite DP album).
2. The two-pronged guitar/organ attack, “the Gorgan”, is a trademark of all Purple line-ups, agreed. DP is as much a cohesive sound as it is songwriting. In Rock, Machine Head and Burn also all share the same ferocious intensity, BUT: What sets Burn apart from the other two albums is a total loss of the English pop element/sentiment in favor of American Black Music influences.
“Pop?!” you ask incredulously? Yes, Ian and Roger’s Episode Six heritage was evident all through Mk II’s tenure and Ian always had a knack for very British, yet catchy melody lines (without attempting to be overtly commercial in his approach). I think it’s no coincidence that with the exception of Hush, all other DP single hits were sung by Ian. Mk III wrote music for arenas and stadiums, they didn’t write singles. All singles released by Mk III and Mk IV tanked – there was no pop element to them. Burn is a great song, but try to hum the chorus and have anyone recognize it. To me, both Machine Head and especially WDWTWA have strong pop elements (which is why I love them), Burn (the album) basically none (I love that album for other reasons). Stormbringer (the album) isn’t poppy either, Hold On and Holy Man are the two catchiest songs (plus the Beatlish middle eight of Lady Double Dealer which echoes some of Ian’s more pop’ish middle eights), but essentially the album’s diversity stems from Black Music and West Coast ingredients which were back then new to DP.
3. Mk III’s treatment of what little Mk II material remained is also telling. With the exception of SOTW as the centerpiece of the set (yet with a Hughes/Lord improvisation glued on to it), all Mk II songs were relegated to being either a throwaway encore (Highway Star), an improvisation setting and set closer (Space Trucking) or an accompaniment to individual solos (The Mule as a part of Ian’s drum solo). The new line-up – old members included – seemed very eager to leave the Mk II legacy behind.
PS: Unrelated, but the “Glenn is to blame for Ritchie leaving!”-adage doesn’t get any better or truer via constant repetition! Let’s remind ourselves that Glenn was
– “only” the bassist (i.e. an instrument 95% of all Mk III fans only took note of if guitar, organ and drums were all three not playing at all or at least not anything interesting which happened rarely),
– the second lead vocalist (from my recollection even that went quite unnoticed by many Purple fans and certainly the public at large; in the mid-70ies, DC was seen as the lead vocalist and successor to Ian Gillan while Glenn was seen as the new bassist and successor to Roger, “the man with the hat”, simple as that, if incomplete a picture),
– plus an occasional co-songwriter (with far less input than either Ritchie or David),
but he wasn’t running the show in any way. The fact is that by the end of 1974, Ritchie had grown tired of Purple and Purple + the management tired of always accommodating him and following another one of his Stalinist purge instincts re the band line-up.
To my knowledge, Ritchie never said “Glenn will have to go if you want to keep me” – had he done that, my bets certainly wouldn’t have been on Glenn winning the battle. DP could have changed the bassist mid-tour on one of their endless US treks and David assumed Glenn’s vocal parts (and changed them around a little to accommodate his range), yet Purple would not have sold one ticket or one vinyl record less. Instead, Ritchie simply made off believing he’d be happier with Rainbow (and just as successful, but with a greater share of the money) while having things his way all the time. Alas!, the best laid plans …
October 18th, 2023 at 14:04@23…Herr Uwe said qt. “To my knowledge, Ritchie never said “Glenn will have to go if you want to keep me” – had he done that, my bets certainly wouldn’t have been on Glenn winning the battle. DP could have changed the bassist mid-tour on one of their endless US treks and David assumed Glenn’s vocal parts (and changed them around a little to accommodate his range), yet Purple would not have sold one ticket or one vinyl record less. Instead, Ritchie simply made off believing he’d be happier with Rainbow (and just as successful, but with a greater share of the money) while having things his way all the time. Alas!, the best laid plans” …
*It’s very true that RB waned a change, & got it…And he didn’t need to fight or argue with management, or suggest replacing members to do so. He just let “Stormbringer” evolve as it did, & perhaps brought a couple-or-so of his own tunes in for comparison, & let them speak for themselves…
What’s very surprising, is how well the band got-its-shyte-together again with CTTB.
Peace !
October 18th, 2023 at 23:15What musicians say in interviews is one thing, what they actually do is another thing. When Blackmore said he wanted a more bluesy sound, he had already chosen Hughes, who was a very funky bass player and in conjunction with funk drummer it was very difficult to achieve a blues sound, even with a vocalist with a very bluesy voice. In fact, I am tormented by doubts that Blackmore could not tolerate Ian in the group because he considered him a direct competitor, and the rest was all said to annoy Gillan and justify himself, and Ritchie’s departure was an admission of his mistake. As for the performance of too few Mark 2 songs, as for me this is due to the fact that Hughes and Coverdale could not do justice to Gillan’s songs, and not because they so sharply wanted to move away from the previous legacy. what I heard from them is simply terrible, they couldn’t even sing Smoke On The Water correctly, much less Child In Time, Fireball, Speed King or Woman From Tokyo could.
October 19th, 2023 at 09:11@ 25 – I agree regarding the comedy duo attempting to sing MK2 material, an embarrassment of all sorts. Looking at the Hughes conundrum in 1973, I suppose Blackmore just took almost 40 years to say what he probably wanted to say back then, ‘You can play bass Glenn, but no singing”. I suppose he needed to to get that off his chest in 2016. Better late than never. Cheers.
October 19th, 2023 at 21:19LOL !
In Glenn Hughes’s defence, ( though he needs none, as his idiocy speaks for itself on record ), people should watch ” Phoenix Rising ” before misleading themselves off history, especially with a dodgy bunch of muso’s & management in the 1970’s lol.
1. Ian Gillan hands in resignation.
2. No-one discusses matters with IG.
3. RB wants to form his own power-trio, but is coaxed to stay-on with DP, as long as a few conditions are met, namely a new bassist is employed along with a new lead singer.
4. The remaining members except Roger Glover, at separate times, & sometimes together, go & watch “Trapeze” perform a number of times.
5. At some point, Glenn is invited to join DP, on the basis of being a Bassist, with the possibility of Paul Rogers taking lead vocal. And Glenn accepts the offer…
6. No one in the band is speaking with RG on the final tour, giving him the cold-shoulder treatment. RG confronts management mid-tour about the situation, & learns that he’s been fired, but is needed to finish said tour. And RG politely, does honour his service to the tour, & leaves at the same time as IG.
Yadda yadda yadda. Watch it all below from the people that were there !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHrz2Tc7ZaU
Peace !
October 20th, 2023 at 05:54All true, but Glenn wasn’t just hired to be the bassist, they also wanted to bolster the harmony vocals department with him – a weak (= nonexistent) aspect in Mk II’s live presentation. What they had in mind was a vocal duo similar to what Jon Anderson/Chris Squire did within YES. It was never intended that Glenn should not sing, only that he shouldn’t be the sole singer and that there should be another singer as an added focal point, Purple did not want to turn into a quartet.
Asking Glenn to join your band and remain mute is a bit like asking Macca to join your band and not sing.
October 20th, 2023 at 13:42@28…
We all know the plus’s & massive minus’s of Glenn’s vocal contributions, it’s there on record for all to hear & see, & thankfully most of it is good-solid-work, but there’s no doubt he sinks the DP ship, right to the greatest fathomable depths of the oceans at times. Very disappointing…
To be in the worlds biggest, best selling & most wanted band in the world, & then go on to destroy their biggest “hit” & other tunes in the live arena the way he did, to me just makes me very, very sad, & angry…(But his antics does display the issues of the industry through those times, for lots of bands & people concerned).
Anyhow, should Paul Rogers have actually taken-up the offer, one wonders how long Glenn or the band would have lasted ?…Melody Maker would have had some interesting stories to print-up…
It’s certainly not Graham Bonnet that needed or even deserved a whack-across-the-back-of-the-head with Ritchie’s guitar lol !…
No wonder he destroyed all those beautiful Stratocasters…No questions here lol !
Peace !
October 20th, 2023 at 22:07@29 I can’t argue about him sinking the ship, but he wasn’t alone. Burn and Stormbringer were such strong LP’s but touring is when things got really f~d up! I haven’t seen GH live since ’74 but am going to see him in Feb 2024 and hoping for better things! He’s persevered,and works hard and deserves another chance from me at least! cheers🤟
October 21st, 2023 at 11:40@30…No doubt GH’s career has more merit than disappointment, at least in a professional sense, & for sure he’ll deliver a quality show when you go see him.
I must admit that I better stop listening to, & watching all Mk-III & Mk-IV live-material, as it’s really not good for one’s health. The studio stuff is fine, (& certainly Made-in-Europe too), as the idiocy is mostly edited out.
I have all the DP( overseas ) Live Series CD’s that were released, & there’s some absolutely superb Mk-III & IV shows that get ruined…These I’ll have to stop listening to, or simply sell-them-off.
Much more fun watching RB search-out the smart-ass-cameraman, walking right across the stage whilst soloing through Highway Star @ that 1993 show in Birmingham I think, & throw all that water over him ( & Jon Lord too )…Absolutely hilarious…And then he plays pretty-well the rest-of-the-night, if isolating himself a little from the others.
At least one clearly sees why they called-it-a-day back in 1976…And nearly in 1993 too.
Peace !
October 21st, 2023 at 23:51@30
Mk-III do massacre some Mk-II stuff live but, but, but… Their last shows sound surprisingly good as documented by Paris and Graz records, even if they still do not do justice to HS and Space Trucking. Their own songs sound superb. Ironically, the major factor in all that is Ritchie’s playing. Knowing that these would be his last shows he really gave it his all.
In ’93, I think, same thing happened. RB knew he was leaving and he made sure to be remembered for the right reasons. In Stuttgart, one can clearly hear how RB and IG are trying to outdo each other and RB comes out the winner. IG still struggles with higher notes and can’t remember some lyrics. At the same time RB’s blitzkrieg through ‘Anya’ turns it from just a solid track into a classic.
October 22nd, 2023 at 14:52“… then go on to destroy their biggest ‘hit’ …”
But, but, but lieber Gregster, where did poor Glenn supposedly ‘destroy’ SOTW? He played the bass lines to that song VERY close to what Roger did, he sang the second verse without too many vocal gyrations and the third verse (repeating the first verse lyrically) with DC together, again without too much showboating, if anything the Mk III (and even the Mk IV) rendition of SOTW was pretty faithful to the original. Actually the Mk II song they did best.
Are you referring to the Glenn Hughes/Jon Lord indulgence they added to the end of the song? I never saw that as a part of SOTW proper, it was just a a bit of messing about. I severely doubt that it was Glenn’s idea to stick that to the end of SOTW, I guess they just couldn’t come up with a better place for it in the set. Admittedly, that addendum (which always sounded very Trapeze’ish if you ask me) is an acquired taste, but the core parts of SOTW were played fine by Mk III. Ritchie actually even said that he liked the way Glenn played SOTW better than Roger’s original version (which I think is more than a bit unfair/ungrateful, but that’s Ritchie for you), because – comparatively simple as the bass lines in it may be -, Ritchie preferred “Glenn’s stronger emphasis on the syncopated off-beats though he plays more or less what Roger always did”.
October 22nd, 2023 at 19:07@30…Agreed ! Paris is a top-notch though slightly flawed show, with tech-hitches & some tuning issues, but it’s the raw, full show…And Graz has an entirely different groove going-on throughout, making it quite different.
All Ritchie had to do, was hit Glenn Hughes around the back of his head with his guitar, every-time he opened his mouth, that wasn’t his part singing ( and even then ). The “cocaine” inflections, the “agraciuose puns”, his “coconut bunch” hints, the near endless “whoops” & the “what do I need ?” inflections are unwarranted, & even are possible stupid inside jokes, laughable perhaps, but confusing for a rock audience who wants to hear a great show…But “Georgia” isn’t even sung well, he sounds like a cat being slowly drawn through a bench saw at high speed, ass-end first, & makes a complete & utter fool of himself, & perhaps the band too.
I hope in time, to be able to edit this idiocy out of the playback, wish me luck !
I remember back in 1985 or so, watching the most awesome DP performance at the Cal Jam with some friends, & then Glenn started singing “Georgia” at the tail-end of SOTW, & everyone in the room, ( there must have been 6-or-so people watching ), stopped watching, looked at each other with our jaws dropped, & asked “WTF is this idiot doing” ???…”He’s just ruined perhaps DP’s best appearance ever, in-front of 1/2 a million people, plus the world audience”…”What a complete, & utter dick-head”…
These were our agreed thoughts on the matter, & this POV hasn’t changed one bit after 50-years, only greater sadness & anger has grown, along with at times a few laughs…What a fool.
And when one learns about this idiocy being consistent in all the Mk-III & Mk-IV shows, one clearly sees why the end came about. It wasn’t the shoe-shine music lol, it was the idiot playing bass, who wasn’t just making himself look foolish, he was taking the band down with him.
He should have been fired, period. What an idiot. Glenn Hughes killed Deep Purple in the 1970’s.
RB had good & bad nights, but if he managed to forget the day & its events, & play the Stratocaster in full-flight, it was an event spectacular, intense & jaw dropping, as all the reunion gigs available offer. My only gripe with RB, is that he’s quite a good rhythm-player too, but he let that skill, or his interest in it, slip through the cracks towards the end of his stint. And the fact that he left mid-tour leaving the band high & dry after being paid an extra 250K is uncool imo.
@33…Yes leiber Uwe my friend, Glenn ruined a lot of shows, for a lot of people, & likely killed the band off too. He certainly didn’t help any situation, & could barely help himself until recent years.
Being a good musician rewards you with (if you’re lucky), a great job, & Glenn blew it all away, & certainly helped in the bands demise.
However, the band went on from strength-to-strength, & made better & better recordings, plus delivered consistent shows once Steve Morse came into the picture. It became a happy band, a musical band, a contemporary leading band, leading the way for others to follow in its wake. Even Jon retiring did not sop this momentum, in fact, Don added to this growing, & rewarding band history & music.
And now do due life’s circumstance, Simon has a chance at adding his own sugar & spice into the mix, & hopefully add another long, great chapter into the DP history !
Peace !
October 22nd, 2023 at 22:53I have only ever heard the California Jam versions of Smoke & Truckin’ with MK3. And I always thought from back then that only one vocalist should have been singing, Either young Coverdale or Hughes, NOT both together. Cheers.
October 23rd, 2023 at 01:22Didn’t Glenn Hughes say when flying in to the CJ aboard the helicopter, ‘this is going to be a great Glenn Hughes day”. Isn’t that on a video somewhere, perhaps the out takes or extras from the very same concert video. Anyway at least his bass playing was on song. A few older friends of mine also cringed when hearing MK3 at my abode. They only knew MK 1 & 2 up to Machine Head. When the CJ was playing they heard the MH songs & were not impressed at all. DP were dead as far they were concerned hearing that. They were with me in 1984 at the MK2 reunion in Sydney.. Gillan was the man to sing those songs & more for those guys. I knew what they meant though. Each to their own as we say. Cheers.
October 23rd, 2023 at 10:01Glenn’s musicianship is fine, & his singing complimented DC’s vocals quite well. They were a good match, & made some solid recordings in the studio.
It’s just really disappointing that his showmanship imo got way-out-of-hand…
Mk’s III & IV had so much going for them…But it’s all learning, & what happened happened. No doubt plenty of people have learned what to do, & what not to do from those experiences lol !
And in retrospect, Ian Gillan has secured & maintained an awesome band for the last 30 + years, so that vision remains an excellent one, backed-up by the other members of course. Kudos to Ian & the boys.
Peace !
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:54But lieber Gregster, you’re beginning to turn into the “One-Man-Anti-Glenn-Hughes-League”! LOL
For historical accuracy: Glenn never sang Georgia On My Mind at the end of SOTW at Cal Jam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ak12PBrTuw
or for that matter with Mk III at all, he only did so with Mk IV (and not always either).
What he did with Mk III was some ad-libbing together with Jon at the end of SOTW – a habit he had brought from Trapeze who as a three-piece were quite happy to incorporate stuff like that into their stage act. A stage act, mind you, that had been inspected by Ritchie, Jon and Little Ian several times – I don’t think they would have allowed Glenn’s vocal improvisations to be carried over to Purple had they deemed them awful then.
People criticizing Glenn with DP seem to be oblivious of the fact that he basically only continued there what he had done with Trapeze live for years (with some success, especially in the US), his stage demeanor did not pop out of nowhere. People who despair that he wasn’t Roger Glover II miss that he never professed to be nor was he hired as such. The habit of throwing in add-libbed vocal showcases probably came from how Humble Pie structured their successful US gigs, with Steve Marriott endlessly ad-libbing in and in between drawn-out live versions of songs, just listen to their “Performance – Rockin’ The Fillmore”, where seven songs were stretched out over a double album.
Uwe
– Chairman of the Glenn Hughes Anti-Defamation League –
October 23rd, 2023 at 13:46@38…
LOL ! No need to form the – Glenn Hughes Anti-Defamation League -…
qt.”A stage act, mind you, that had been inspected by Ritchie, Jon and Little Ian several times – I don’t think they would have allowed Glenn’s vocal improvisations to be carried over to Purple”.
Glenn’s improvisations were idiocy. I doubt that anyone likes them, & figure most people either laugh, or scratch their heads at them…But they do reveal the end of DP…
And what could little Ian, John & Ritchie do about it once on stage, & with Glenn coked-out-of-his-brain ??? Brain-fart after brain-fart…It begins to stink after a while, so Ritchie left in 1975, ( indifferently allowing the shoe-shine music to appear on Stormbringer, that gave him a perfect excuse to leave without pointing any finger at the “band idiot”) & the band folded a year later, after making one-of-the-best albums in their career. John, Ian & DC couldn’t go on with the idiocy any further. They state this in Phoenix Rising…
*If only Ritchie had smashed his Stratocaster around Glenn’s head a few times…
Many years have passed, & people can make their own minds up on matters, though pointless too, as there’s nothing that can be done lol !
Someone has to set the example of what not to do on stage yes ???…
As mentioned earlier, the studio albums are fine, & the superb Made in Europe is thankfully very carefully edited, where only a few “whoops etc” slip through on the fade in / out…
If only the DP(overseas) Live Series edited out the idiocy…They’d probably have sold all the copies out ! And this is where the issue lays with me, with these albums. No one expected to ever hear these shows in full, but possibly bits & pieces turned into a “Made in Europe” follow-up, since its original release was seen as a quick cash-in before CTTB was released, & a farewell to RB & Mk-III.
And I had no idea how terrible Glenn’s antics had become…What a nightmare…No wonder they folded…
So there-you-go ! Live in Paris & Live in Graz reveal what a gigantic idiot Glenn Hughes was, & why the band ultimately broke-up, & why I get very upset…The cure is simple, don’t bother with listening to these otherwise excellent shows !
Peace !
October 23rd, 2023 at 21:59THIS IS the Glenn that Ritchie, Jon + Little Ian checked out several times in 1972/73 and deemed worthy of joining DP, making him an offer to play bass AND sing alongside a (prematurely) penciled in Paul Rodgers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsjuWAVZqzc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AKUqjPEfkE
Listen to it. And THEN tell me that anything Glenn did with Mk III + IV on stage must have come as a surprise to the senior DP members. Or that they were really looking for Roger Glover II and thought Glenn would be the guy. You can’t.
It was all there in plain sight and for everyone to hear: Trapeze were a band with a lot of vocal improvisation/ad-libbing (with Glenn as the master of melisma), more so than Mk II, where Big Ian would sing his parts and then happily bang away at his congas, stuff like the voc/guitar duel during Strange Kind Of Woman perhaps excepted. I believe that as a small trio, Trapeze felt required to showcase more than just guitar solos (which a lot of rock trios tended to mostly rely on).
There seems to be this prevailing misconception that Glenn snuck his way into Purple based on false pretenses when he was in fact actively poached by the mighty Purple from Trapeze for his showmanship + swagger, his vocal gyrations + impossible range as well as his up-front, rhythmically aggressive bass playing. If you dislike what he did with DP, you’re basically asserting that Ritchie, Jon & Ian didn’t know what they were doing in 1973 asking him to join and/or had their eyes and ears glued shut.
And I’m happy that they did because neither Burn nor Stormbringer nor Come Taste The Band would have sounded nearly as good without his contributions. Just listen to how he made Holy Man sound
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAFnLuv3T-8
in comparison to how it sounds without him
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbUWFM9LQA0
Make no mistake, David’s version is nice (I could do without the mock Zep breaks though they stuck wantonly into the middle part …), but it has none of the understated, yet highly effective funk Glenn put into his singing and bass playing.
October 23rd, 2023 at 23:17Lieber Uwe…
There’s no issue with Glenn’s abilities, it’s his idiocy-at-times that’s offensive, & so very disappointing…
Plus’s & minus’s = 0, as they cancel each other out…And that’s what’s so disappointing with the DP(overseas) Live Series releases of Mk-III & IV…They are absolutely superb, right up until Glenn unnecessarily opens his mouth…
Screaming Lord Such did a far better job, & was more entertaining…He even had a position for Glenn in his “Official Monster Raving Looney Party”…
My issue is that I listened to Paris, followed by Graz, & then Longbeach ’76, one after the ather, & it nearly drove me buts lol…Now imagine what this was doing to the band night-after-night whilst on tour…
Peace !
October 24th, 2023 at 08:46Horses for courses, when I was 16 or so, Glenn’s wild vocal antics and gung-ho bass playing appealed greatly to me. I thought he was a rock god and a real good addition to Purple’s live presence. He sure made you want to watch him.
It’s not like Roger didn’t have a stage presence, his metronomic swaying working in the engine room with Little Ian and the tell-tale hat plus Rickenbacker 4001 (in later years) were iconic too, but Glenn’s extrovert nature (being used to having been the front man with Trapeze) certainly made things exciting on stage.
You’re being unreasonably harsh with him, Herr Gregster! Mk III were overall more decadent and saturated than Mk II – in line with the times (mid seventies!) and DP’s mounting success -, Glenn fitted right in with that.
October 24th, 2023 at 14:03LOL !!!
Herr Uwe said qt.”You’re being unreasonably harsh with him, Herr Gregster! Mk III were overall more decadent and saturated than Mk II – in line with the times (mid seventies!) and DP’s mounting success -, Glenn fitted right in with that”.
You’re quite correct lieber Uwe, I am being harsh with Glenn, when quite clearly it’s all Ritchie’s fault…All he gad to do was smash his Stratocaster across the back of Glenn’s head any-number of times necessary, & matters would have been much, much better, guaranteed…But RB was clearly playing the band & management off-each-other, for an easy, obvious way out, via the shoe-shine music that was presented with Stormbringer…This is why the Stratocaster never reached the back of Glenn’s head…
Glenn & his idiocy was clearly paving the way-out for Ritchie Blackmore, & Ritchie didn’t want to mess-up the drive-way out that Glenn created…DP had become the cement-truck, & Glenn the paver…And once enough cement was poured & dried, off Ritchie went 😉 !
*If only Ian Gillan never handed-in his resignation…We’d have had albums 10-times-better than Burn or Stormbringer…
But then we’d never have received CTTB…
Peace !
October 24th, 2023 at 23:06Now we’re talking, Herr Gregster! By the time of Stormbringer being recorded in the latish Summer of 1974, Blackers must have realized that he had overplayed his hand with the power games in the band. What would he have replied if Jon & Little Ian had confronted him:
“You let Gillan with his one-of-a-kind voice go at the peak of our success and kicked out our second songwriter who never did anybody any harm, namely Roger, to get in a blues rock singer and an extrovert funk bassist to your liking, only to tell us now that you want to change yet again? How many more times, Ritchie?!”
There is method to Ritchie’s ‘toys-out-of-the-pram’-madness/indulgence. Whether in 1975 or in 1993, he always left DP after he had painted himself into a corner and couldn’t have things his way anymore.
And while I adore CTTB as a great US-tinged rock’n’roll album, it’s not a piece of pop history in league with the first four prior Mk II studio albums or how further Mk II albums after 1973 would have in all probability developed. Sadly, Mk II never got around to recording their own Physical Graffiti which was likely Led Zep’s most mature, well-rounded and style-prolific work.
October 25th, 2023 at 14:41I am not sure of Blackmore painting himself into a corner. Probably just doing whatever he can with other musicians while it lasts. There are plenty of other bands & musicians who have done very similar things in the pursuit of the ‘holy grail’, so to speak. Look at Gillan the band, at an end & seemingly nowhere to go, the Sabbath desperation rears it’s head & off Gillan goes into no mans land dropping everyone into an abyss from what we have read. Regarding Purple in 1975 Lord & Paice were over it also from what we have heard, surely they could have pulled the plug & eventually they both regretted not doing so. That speaks volumes of Blackmore’s departure. Easy to blame Ritchie for the Ian Gillan departure but Gillan was exhausted & over it also at that stage. How much can the human ‘machine’ endure at certain stages of indulgence? Who is going to oil the machine? Someone has to take the reigns. Someone has to take the plunge & ego & determination is one of many reasons it happens. 1993 & again that was on the cards for how long? Whilst I did not like S & M at all & Deep Purple probably should have ceased before that occurred, maybe contracts etc had something to do with that. I don’t know but surely other band members could or should have done something or were they painted into a corner also at that time. Cheers.
October 25th, 2023 at 20:49@44…At least we’re coming to a close on matters here lol ! …Anyhow, here’s my replies…
1. IMO, Ian left on his own accord, & no-one approached him about his decision. There was tension already between RB & IG, & do you really think RB was going to ask him to reconsider ???…IP, JL, RG & management, were also responsible & eligible to discuss matters with him. Too bad they didn’t.
2. At this stage of their career, RB was “testing-the-waters” about the “pull” he had with the band & management. He was learning quickly, & wanted to leave, to start his own band…They should have let him go, & DP dissolve at this point…In this instance, there’d be no Glenn Hughes idiocy, & he’d have remained a relatively unknown, & likely had a relatively ( all things considered ) normal life…And most importantly, we would have been spared all his bullshyte…
But DP is a massive money-making-cow, that needed further milking, as the US-of-A’s charts suggested, with a mixture of 11 DP albums / singles registered in 1973, & 2 x single versions of SOTW up there too, the live & studio mixes. This is what kept them going, & Glenn’s coke-habit flourishing…
CTTB “should” have been the start of many great things to come from many bands in the music industry. It had groove, melody, & power, all combined into one. For sure other great bands like Little Feat did far better in this arena, but they weren’t as heavy as DP presented this kind of music.
LZ, imo, had drifted into a sphere of musical style that seemed to trap them within itself for a number of albums…And when they tried to beak-free from this sphere after their sabbatical, they delivered “In through the out door” which imo is their poorest ever delivery, & showcased a confused, & directionless band. Coda by contrast, ( though a collection of mostly “B” sides that never made it onto albums over the years ), is a far better album to my ears, much more enjoyable, & gets a regular spin here, when I’m in a LZ mood. Thankfully, DP have never faded away, & have never delivered an album that made you think “that’s it, they’re done, that was shyte”…
As regards Glenn Hughes & his ongoing idiocy, perhaps a discussion with John Downing would clear matters-up as to his definitive career crowning moment, & its removal 5-weeks into a tour… Perhaps karma got him back this-time-’round…
Peace !
October 25th, 2023 at 23:02@44
We all now have the benefit of hindsight, which neither DP musicians, nor their managers, journos and fans had back then in the 1970s. They could not have teleport themselves into 2023 and say: ‘Oh, if Mk IV continued and overcame some personal issues, we would have DP play some blacker music, keep and reconquer the American market etc.’ Or do some other kind of alternative history exercise and then come back to their time and fix accordingly.
On the opposite, in the 1970s no one was thinking in grand terms as to fix one’s place in history. Everything was very dynamic. It was okay to leave a successful band if one didn’t get along with his bandmates, join another band, or start one’s own band, then get back to your previous band etc. Fortunes were quickly made and lost. Everyone was planning things for the short-term perspective only. In hindsight, it paid off to keep the band running despite the lineup changes and changing music trends and just stay there till you become hip again. Yes kept going while ELP split, and they were rewarded with being elevated to another level commercially and in terms of their place in the history of rock. LZ kept running a few years more that DP and it made a huge difference, commercially, at least. The quality of music is another matter, though.
October 30th, 2023 at 07:59I liked ‘In Through The Out Door’ a lot better than ‘Presence’! It was LZ looking at the future while ‘Presence’ was looking at past glories. ITTOD is a smooth, catchy record and probably the LZ album in their canon which people who are otherwise unimpressed by Zep like best.
Coda does nothing for me, a barrel-scraping much like Purple’s Powerhouse. No red thread running through it.
October 30th, 2023 at 14:28@ 47 -good points indeed. People do what they do or have to do at the time, like life itself. A bit of ebb & flow, take a few risks & move on.
October 30th, 2023 at 19:37@48- Agree re ITTOD Zeppelin album. It was an opportunity to get John Paul Jones out of his shell. He & Plant excelled on that album & it is a progressive effort in many ways. Page was a right off at that stage wasn’t he, substance abuse etc & Bonham appeared to have issues also. They didn’t enjoy not being busy on the road during that late 1970’s period & fell into an abyss it seems. Plant had family issues, much more important than trying to be a rock star. LZ delivered in 1979 to my ears. It is also of note that apparently Page & Bonham were both not happy with that album & wanted to return to the old ways with the next album. Says it all. Regarding rare & unreleased songs on later releases from artists, I don’t rate them as an ‘album’ as such.. Just a few tracks here & there that might be good or bad, depending on the contents of the barrel that is being scraped. Most songs are usually left off an album for a good reason, not good enough at the time. Sometimes it can be time restraints & there can be a few gems discovered, but usually it is not the case with most artists. They can be interesting to hear though & I did purchase both albums at the time, but they didn’t end up on the regular spinning turntable for long. Cheers.
@47…Well said, & only a few bands were drifting towards a “disco” feel in those times, without sacrificing old-fans…That’s what makes CTTB such an important record, as it moves forward keeping old fans, whilst acquiring new ones…And the styles within it would have easily walked over punk, & cruised along side disco.
@48…”Powerhouse” is an awesome album for a great many reasons…We got all that was left from Mk-II in the studio with “Painted Horse”, & it showcased extraordinary Mk-II live performances from the live arena pre-MiJ…This kept fans salivating for years for the most impressive “Stockholm” show…And its sales possibly helped encourage the reunion. People wanted Mk-II back, there’s no question there. And its a vastly more respected album than you may think, for those reasons…Live Mk-II DP was available again.
Perhaps as a post-sabbatical album, LZ’s ITTOD offered some encouraging signs for LZ fans, as there’s really only 1 x poor track on it, the rest is as you would expect from the boys, but with only Jimmy Page contributing far less inspired music than any other record.
You only have to compare ITTOD with say the “Cars Cany-O” of the same period to see how LZ lost a step-or-two with trending R&R…But it’s likely a good thing they didn’t fall into the short lived “new wave” trap either, they relied on proven paths.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQxo8OvVvJ1VnEKEQNSIX8-K-kmsQbozf
Hard to keep up with the album above imo…( Though its the only true gold-nugget from the band, regardless of further successes ).
Peace !
October 30th, 2023 at 22:38But Herr Gregster, are we getting all diverse now or what?” THE CARS ??? !!! Be a man, get a grip on yourself, none of this pansy New Wave skinny tie crap here!!!
Great band, Ric Ocasek was a genius, my favorite track of theirs is this here, but I have all their stuff plus solo outings by the various members (less than with DP, fortunately):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTVzRfZEiAM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7Gpr_Auz8Y
Noteworthy not just for Elliot Easton’s brilliant (and lengthy) guitar solos (in league with what Blackmore did in Hold On, that good, you never know what he does next, but it all gels!), but also for the fact that the verse is played 5/4 by the rhythm section, while the rest of the band sticks to 4/4, so the repeating parts of bass & drums are always in different places as the song develops – très clever!
Greg Hawkes is a brilliant musician too – and not just on keyboards:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3wFv_UO_50
October 31st, 2023 at 23:27@51…
Nice selection there lieber Uwe ! The studio version had a much fatter sound, though the TV version was extremely well mimed…
The uke special was impressive indeed. I actually thought it was Charlie Watts playing that at first lol !
Peace !
November 1st, 2023 at 11:35When I hear some of those ‘new age’ bands again, like The Cars etc, I hear how much they influenced Rush post 1982. That guitar style & keyboard sound & also the drums etc, the way Rush wrote certain songs. Rush changed significantly for the 1983/4 Grace Under Pressure album & I am not only talking about their trendy new age hair styles. Cheers.
November 1st, 2023 at 21:05Yo,
Lot’s of bands felt the pressures of thinking they had to reinvent themselves with the dawn of the new decade looming. BS,LZ, & DP were thought of as past memories, punk was dying along side disco, & we got Brian Eno electronica mixed with punk to form “new-wave”…And suddenly the Police along side Blondie were carving-up the charts…
Bands such as Queen also felt the need to change their sound, with albums like “Hot Space” finding its own feet eventually, though as usual, David Bowie ultimately delivered the seminal works of “Scary Monsters & Super Creeps”, followed-up with an even more successful “Let’s Dance” ( With Christiane – F sandwiched in-between )…
Times & sounds were changing, & RUSH changed with the times very successfully…But it wasn’t with “P/G”, it was “Permanent Waves” that cemented them as headliners everywhere, with full-house, sold-out shows…”Moving Pictures” however sold more, & is regarded as “the” perfect RUSH album by many ( not myself however, that crown goes to “Hemispheres” )…And it was around this time in the earlier 1980’s, that RUSH decided to swap-out their long-time producer Terry Brown…And from that moment on, their over-all sound thinned-out, & they moved from prog-metal into more contemporary radio-friendly music, with albums like “Signals” & “P/G” arriving.
That said, their sound in the live arena remained steadfast heavy, regardless of the softer nature sounds springing forth on these albums, as when played live, it was to my ( & no-doubt many people(s) ) relief, RUSH as usual, thank God…And they’ve never strayed too far away from their original sound since then, & delivered an extraordinary magnum-opus finale with “Clockwork Angels” decades later…( Check out “P/G 1984 tour” live album for confirmation of facts )…
And in the midst of all that 1980’s swap & change, Mk-II DP reformed…And I still remember & feel the chills of anticipation & anxiety swelling when I first heard the introduction to “Knocking at your back door”…What an inspired introduction to welcome back the band…And what a most-pleasing record to get in the midst of ho-hum 1980’s, with the likes of “Boy George” winning-over audiences LOL !!!
Peace !
November 2nd, 2023 at 00:10You think it was mimed, Gregster? By 1980 a lot of bands were using the Nady wireless system instead of instrument cables, I hear enough differences to the studio version to make me believe it was live, but perhaps it was prerecorded for the show. Let’s face it, The Cars were more obsessed with audio perfection than a sweaty,’honest’ live performance.
New WAVE, not AGE, Herr MacGregor, but we got the gist of it! I always respected Rush for NOT sticking to the successful A Farewell To Kings/Hemispheres blueprint and trying something different.
November 2nd, 2023 at 03:11@55…
I did look, & couldn’t see anything plugged into anyone’s guitar sockets, though my eyes aren’t that great when looking onto a small lap-top screen…( Hence the typo’s from time-to-time )…
And I couldn’t see anything hanging-off anyone’s back pockets either…
I certainly think these were 2 x different recordings, & the TV appearance well mimed…There was no amps to be seen either…I’m not sure how often they toured, or how large the crowds were that they pulled-in, but there’s plenty of “real” live footage of them playing in what seems like medium sized clubs, of say 2-3,000 capacities.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NksIQdzK6d4
The link above is to a Texas show in 1984, at their “peak”, & the guitars are plugged-in, with I’d guess 5-K crowd, maybe more…Sound is very acceptable too !
Peace !
November 2nd, 2023 at 09:37Great quality, thanks!
That‘s a gig from the Summit in Houston, a once well-known 15.000-20.000 capacity venue that these days has become an Evangelical mega church building.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakewood_Church_Central_Campus
It was a sports arena venue for major acts touring there in the mid-70ies, 80ies, 90ies and early Noughties: Led Zep, The Who, Springsteen, Eagles, ZZ Top, Journey, Queen, Billy Joel, Metallica, Destiny‘s Child etc.
At their commercial peak, The Cars were actually a successful arena act in the US (and nowhere else), but from people who saw them around that time I‘ve heard that they really weren‘t a band that considered arena gigs their natural environment. I thought Ocasek‘s intellectual nerdiness and the very East Coast-urban “we all never got off art college really”-image of the band appealing, but it‘s something that doesn‘t transfer all that captivatingly well to a mega gig stage. And of course The Cars were anything but a jam band like Purple, they played their greatest hits faithfully – it‘s what their audience wanted and got.
November 2nd, 2023 at 14:37Rush manager Terry Brown was ‘let go’ after Signals. The band felt they needed a new ‘everything’ & it did did work, although looking like Duran Duran wasn’t a good look, so to speak. Lifeson changed his approach to guitar playing in certain ways away from riff based to a more chordal textured style. Influenced by The Edge as well as bands like Simple Minds & Ultravox & even Midge Ure’s guitar playing style impressed him. More space & less twiddly dee solo’s etc, a bit of Ska & Reggae etc thrown in, although that can already be heard on previous albums, especially Moving Pictures. But it was also the overall typical 1980’s technology (and other modern concepts) that changed so many bands at that time. (The curse of the 1980’s I call it), MTV etc etc. I do rate that era of Rush as my second favourite, after the Holy Trinity of Permanent Waves, Moving Picture & Signals. Throw in A Farewell to Kings & side two of Hemispheres & bravo. I did listen again to side one a few days ago & agree with Steve Wilson who has recently remixed Hemispheres. Side two is his favourite and he like myself feels the Cygnus X-1 Book Two (complete side one) a little lacking in ideas & tired etc compared to the Cygnus X -1 Book 1 (10 minutes) on the AFTK album. Luckily the tracks The Trees & La Villa Strangiato are on that album to save it in that respect. They definitely had to get away from the rather lengthy progressive Sci-Fi & fantasy concepts & move into the 80’s. Also Geddy made a concerted effort to drop the vocal histrionics from previous records, thankfully. It is just those hairstyles, why oh why didn’t they warn us or something, the shock was palpable to us out here in Oz. But then again it can take a little time for things to sink here in OZ living under a rock. Cheers.
November 2nd, 2023 at 21:18From my memory of interviews back then (which I read sections of again yesterday) with Big Al & the ‘change’ in guitar playing & or songwriting. I forgot to mention the keyboards being the main instrument in initial song ideas from Geddy. For certain songs at least. Having to adapt or change with chords etc, what to put in & what to leave out etc etc. Not the same songwriting formula he & Geddy had before that, being guitar & bass guitar based. Fast forwarding a few albums & Lifeson was being tested big time with his patience etc. Too many keyboards & sequencers etc. Apparently or allegedly he & Geddy often came to a stand off of sorts unlike ever before. This is starting to sound like a cue for a new drama movie. See what the 1980’s did to people! Cheers.
November 3rd, 2023 at 00:15Hey Mac
Speaking of Rush, after Signals, there was very little that they did that I liked. I know a lot of Rush fans who like them from the first self titled album, up to Signals, Probably the only song that I really liked by them after Signals was The Big Money. Peace.
November 3rd, 2023 at 02:45@57…It remains a mystery to me why “the Cars” actually broke-up, though the rumour-mill suggested many things such as a conflict-of-interest between Orr & Ocasek, plus the gravitation towards electronic drums used on full songs leaving Dave Robinson out-in-the-cold too…They were at the peak of their popularity and then……nothing lol, except a burst of solo-albums from the various members ! ( IMO Mr.Orr hands down had the best singing voice…Ocasek always sounded to me like he was “struggling-on-the-can” with constipation trying to get something out )…
Benjamin Orr (RIP) passed-away in 2000, & a new album appeared some 10-years later, with the remaining original 4 x members, with the bass-parts played by Greg Hawkes on both keyboards & bass. The album was titled “Move like this”, had 10-songs played-out within 40-minutes, & reached #7 on Billboard…They backed-it-up with a 10-city tour with the US-of-A & Canada, & that was it…And then we lost Rick Ocasek (RIP) in 2019…( The were inducted in the R&RHoF in 2018 )…
As for RUSH, I personally think that they made the right decision to find a new Producer / Engineer, just maybe selected the wrong time to do it…Terry Brown didn’t want to see the worlds last heavy-going “power-trio” turn into electronica, & so he was retired by the band…
At the end-of-the-day, & after all the heart-breaking life-circumstances of Neil Peart & the loss of his family, they got back together after a 4-5-year hiatus, & delivered the incredible “Vapour Trails” in the early 2000’s…The original progressive-heavy-metal soundscape returned in full with this album, & I was very, very pleased as always with the result…It seemed the necessary deviations in styles here & there per album had gone, & they focussed on delivering a big, bad, heavy-mother-*ucking come-back album with awesome success…Smiles all-round everywhere was the result 😉 !!!
* Also, RUSH in 2015 remastered at Abbey Road, all of their albums, with bonus 5.1 mixes available, depending on the “product” sought out…Some of these have so far successfully been released in various grades of “40th Anniversary Editions”, starting with “2112” in 2016…
I have bought the 2 x CD (& DVD) editions, & can conclude that the original recordings are superb, with little-to-no improvement in sound quality at all to be discovered, as listened on a full Yamaha 5.1 system…The only real bonus is the live-albums that are contained there-in, & DVD’s if offered. The remasters sound the same as the originals, with even the stereo imaging remaining the same…What may be newly heard, are ever-so-subtle percussion sounds from time-to-time, having more clarity about them, & perhaps some nuance being identified…I doubt very much anyone would notice these on average stereo systems…I draw this conclusion playing albums back-to-back, one after the other, on regular 2.1’s followed by 5.1, original album followed by remaster.
And because of my employment as a Marine Engineer Officer, regular medicals that include intense ear-tests are carried out bi-annually, & my ears are fine, I’m happy to report.
Peace !
November 3rd, 2023 at 03:33@ 60 – yes that late 70’s to 1982 is the Rush I still play & there is more of a chance I will play the complete album. The later 80’s to early 90’s material only gets a few songs here & there these days. I still like certain songs very much, Power Windows, Hold Your Fire & Grace Under Pressure are still good nostalgia Rush for me, it is probably the sound of all those keyboards, sequencers & electronic percussion that hasn’t worn well with me as time evolves. I do like some of Presto, Roll the Bones & Counterparts but as albums they don’t lure me as they use to back in the day. I went off Rush at Test for Echo, I could hear a drop off in what I liked about them before, the song quality. After the break post 2000 I didn’t buy any, just listened online to Vapour Trails & didn’t like it. I have a copy of Snakes & Arrows & played it a lot then but not since. Didn’t like Clockwork Angels from what I heard of it. Still they delivered the goods for a long time & were an exceptional live band. Not too bad musicians either he he he. Cheers.
November 3rd, 2023 at 20:42Benjamin Orr’s voice always sounded to me exactly like Ric Ocasek’s voice if the latter could have sung a bit better with a little more range! But in truth, Ocasek was to The Cars what Sting was to The Police, Ian Anderson to Jethro Tull or Bryan Ferry to Roxy Music. That New Cars experiment with Todd Rundgren said it all, best forgotten.
Ocasek gave up on The Cars because he realized that the rock’n’roll circus meant little to him and that he did not want to spend the rest of his life playing The Car’s hit singles to audiences – he became a largely reclusive man. And that Orr solo album was pleasant, but also extremely lightweight (Did anyone just now say Peter Cetera?!), it had none of the nerdy-yet-tuneful cutting edge Ocasek’s compositions had.
That initial mix of Rush’s Vapor Trails was extremely painful to listen to – the remix much, much later let that album finally shine like it deserved, Geddy was right. I’ve never been the greatest Rush fan, their music is a bit too angular for me (nevertheless I have it all), but I am also convinced that there is no such thing as a really bad Rush record – even their so-so albums are at the very least brave failures. They were honestly dedicated to their craft in an almost academic way.
November 4th, 2023 at 00:23Yo,
It’s not necessarily what’s presented on a studio album that determines whether something is good or not…The studio is a blank canvas to deliver ideas & paint a picture, as accurately as desired or possible or warranted…
The real essence of the whole, is how it’s presented in the live arena, & whether the band can deliver the goods, or even better / add more colour to what’s delivered in the studio environment.
This is where bands like DP, RUSH, Queen, Black Sabbath & many others excel, in the live arena…
To not engage yourself in this arena is selling yourself short, & some people are like that sadly. Some people simply prefer a negative POV, others a positive POV. Yin & Yang.
I myself hav mentioned already, way too many times, how a shyte sounding / presented studio-albums album, can be dramatically improved in life & energy within the live arena…
Even Queen’s hopelessly poor “Hot Space” actually kicks-major-ass in the live arena…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IChXlP6B3po
I would also suggest that bands like DP, when they deliver an album with top-notch-singers such as JLT in “Slaves & Masters” would also have the album kick-ass in the live arena. JLT was in Rainbow for many tours & albums, & knows what’s needed to feed the fans…
RUSH too, have always delivered top-notch performances in the live arena, lifting already magnificent studio albums into a higher realm of life-giving-energy ! But if one doesn’t look & listen, one will never know…What a bummer…
Here’s “Clockwork Angels” live, for those who sell-themselves-short, & prefer to test-the-waters by reading “unknown reviews” rather than giving things a chance, & forming a personal opinion, free from the dross of multimedia, where if one-person writes a poor review, others follow like sheep, without even taking a listen for themselves lol …
But that’s life & people !!! Times & tastes change for sure…Crazy but wonderful world indeed…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6sbaY3KdyE
Peace !
November 4th, 2023 at 01:06@63…
There’s no doubt Rick Ocasek was the band leader, even if Benjamin Orr sung many of the hits too…For a while, there must have been a system of democracy that worked lol ! And there must be something about “leaving whilst at the top” that appeals to some…I’d suggest most people were expecting more & more from them, but some things are not-to-be.
At least by this time in the mid-80’s, some of the other bands I mentioned earlier had returned to some great form, or at least did for a short while like Queen with “The Works & AKoM” …And RUSH’s music became much grander & they sounded like themselves again with “Power Windows” onwards…And of course, DP gave us “Perfect Strangers”, so all of a sudden, the 80’s were looking better & better mid-decade.
The opening track on “Vapour Trails” to my ears is the harsh sounding one, with the others being fine. It’s Neil’s ride-cymbal that has like digital distortion through it, & the microphone placed at exactly the wrong-spot, such that a distorted phasing sound is presented that affects the whole sound of the track. I thought it was imply a modern studio effect being tried-out, as even some tracks on STP’s “No.4” sounded similar…In fact, I returned the CD to the store claiming it was faulty & had another new one delivered, & it ultimately sounded the same…
That said, I bought a boxed-set of all the 1990’s onwards RUSH claiming the remix of “Vapour Trails” in mini-LP CD slip-cases, but I haven’t even opened it up yet after seven-odd-years lol !…In fact, only the other day I replied to a chance to win a free copy of the album as offered by “RUSH Back-stage”…
I agree there’s no bad RUSH album, & like “Sidroman” thought “Power Windows” was a return to great form, with the change in sounds found on say “Signals” & “P/G” not to my liking very much ( until I got live albums of these tours )…I also at the time bought “Exit Stage Left” over the studio “Moving Pictures”, so that record at least was well received. For myself, the studio albums “Signals” & “P/G” is where they slipped, & yet, are among their biggest selling albums…Go figure…
I do understand what you mean about the music being “angular” at times, but that’s really only found on “Permanent Waves”, where-by you have excellent radio-friendly tunes, mixed in with some of the weirdest / “angular” music they ever delivered. This albums diversity is amazing…And yet it proved quite popular…I suppose its there too on “Moving Pictures” but it’s much easier to digest, & this is their biggest seller, & the album where songs are asked to be played most often by fans…
Like early Mk-II DP , it’s the earlier 1970’s music that I play most often, right up to “Hemispheres”…When I’m tired of hearing that stuff, I move on to the later stuff with no disappointment, or simply pick-out a live show from whatever era I’m in the mood for, & then I get a high-energy hit of everything, from all era’s lol !
Peace !
November 4th, 2023 at 22:47“In fact, I returned the CD to the store claiming it was faulty & had another new one delivered, & it ultimately sounded the same …”
LOL, when I heard the CD first, I too thought it might be the pressing!
November 6th, 2023 at 19:24