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Glenn Hughes on THAT Rocks!
Glenn Hughes will be a guest on THAT Rocks! podcast hosted by Eddie Trunk, Don Jamieson and Jim Florentine. The show will be streamed live worldwide on YouTube on Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 22:00 UTC, as well as available there for watching later.
[Update Aug 3]: watch it
Thanks to Coast To Coast for the info.
Unauthorized copying, while sometimes necessary, is never as good as the real thing
I am thrilled to see that Eddie, Jim, & Don are doing That Rocks. I loved their That Metal Show. I need to check out that Iommi Fused album.
August 5th, 2023 at 06:31Compared to some other interviews we’ve heard and seen in more recent times, this isn’t exactly a treasure trove of information or insight. Lots of back slapping and people even forgetting that Hughes Thrall was ever recorded. No mention of Play Me Out at all, that one album where Glenn released his inner Stevie Wonder in full “and devoted himself so earnestly to black soul & funk, you can’t help but be impressed with the outcome” (as one German music mag wrote at the time which otherwise would only heap derision on Purple-related product).
Tony Iommi voted over Ritchie as a guitarist AND as the high point in Glenn’s career by these three chaps? Glenn diplomatically stays out of it, but really: let’s not get carried away. Tony has rightfully forged a name as a heavy metal riff merchant and written rock history. He’s also an idiosyncratic guitarist, but signature components of his style such as ultra-thin strings and severe down-tuning to reduce string tension are a mere compensatory consequence of him losing the upper phalanges of his right fretting hand (he’s a leftie) because he has to play with thimbles replacing some of his lost fingertips.
https://kutx.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Iommi-Thimbles.jpg
For sheer physical reasons, Tony could not play the Burn riff or Lazy or the Highway Star solo, just like Rick Allen of Def Leppard can no longer drum certain things after losing his arm. That is not putting either Tony or Rick down, I salute them for overcoming potentially crippling accidents that would have ended the careers of most other guitarists and drummers. All credit to them and their willpower.
Tony is also a box player and not a lateral up and down the length of the neck improviser – call me old-fashioned, but I think that needs to go into the equation.
Finally, Seventh Star and Fused are supposed to be more important than Burn and Stormbringer? Me think not. That is not to say that Sabbath haven’t recorded other pivotal works for posterity.
August 5th, 2023 at 13:01I don’t listen to these fawning loud mouth so called DJ’s. Having to listen to those two British wannabe’s, Guy Pratt & the other guy was difficult enough. At least they are muso’s & were having a laugh pretending to be radio hosts. If that is what these jokers are alluding to with Hughes & his involvement with Iommi, well these sort of guys will try & hype anything. Seventh Star was as we know initially a Iommi solo album, not a Glenn Hughes collaboration. I wonder if they talked or tried to talk about the tour that followed? And the less said about that diabolical Fused album the better. They didn’t even tour with that album, that in itself makes us wonder. Is that the best these guys can do? Thanks Uwe for the comments, at least I don’t have to listen to it. I like the comments regarding Iommi & Rick Allen, yes indeed forging ahead & respect there indeed. Particularly Allen, technology also played it’s part in helping him out & he is still going even after that recent assault from that fool. Cheers.
August 5th, 2023 at 23:10@2…I suggest that you’re always going to get mixed & changing results when persons are compared against one-another, for whatever reasons…You could throw Mr.Page in there too, & likely get a 1/3 each share, as all have their plusses & minuses.
1. Black Sabbath were a heavy blues band, that dipped successfully into prog-rock in a well balanced way, as the then developing studio technologies allowed. They always remained a heavy blues-band to my ears, with a spectacular drummer.
2. Deep Purple were always a R & R type band, that perhaps initially tried-their-hand with the 1960’s acid / psychedelia music, whilst retaining strong classical influences. The influence of Led Zeppelin affected both bands in a major way.
3. Led Zeppelin were overall more varied & daring in their soundscapes, though like all bands, eventually get caught-up with struggling to break-free of the mould they cast for themselves. The albums after LZ IV have a likeable similarity about them as an example.
Peace !
August 6th, 2023 at 01:33Here is an interview with Glenn recorded in the last weeks talking about Burn 50 as well as other stuff, have to admit I never knew he joined ELO for 2 weeks or that Anne Wilson wanted to work with him and Eddie Van Halen thought he was a good fit for Van Halen https://spotifyanchor-web.app.link/e/IHrfLxJJ2Bb
August 6th, 2023 at 12:49I thought the recent Gary Kemp/Guy Pratt podcast with Glenn fresh, different, instructive and with a fellow musicians‘ appreciation that never tipped into gushing fan boy‘ism. A joy to listen to.
But then that was a Brit podcast while the above one was hosted by people from the former colonies about whom a great Briton named Winston C. once said in deep knowledge and appreciation: “You can always rely on the Americans to do the right thing. In the end. After having exhausted all other available options of course.“
August 6th, 2023 at 22:15I don’t think that I would have done this if not for watching the episode of That Rock, but just got a ticket to see Glenn Hughes at the House of Blues in Anaheim. It was just $39. I am not sure if I will get to see Purple again, so this will be a nice bookend with him doing Purple songs on this tour and that I also saw Whitesnake when they were doing Purple songs in 2015.
Not sure if I will stick around for Yngwie.
August 6th, 2023 at 23:14@3 You must not have watched the 14 seasons of That Metal Show on VH1 Classic. This podcast is the return of that format. They have always plugged unknown and underrated hard rock and metal albums and no one knows more about the genre than them. eddie Trunk in additon to producing radio and TV shows, and published books has gotten album credit as an executive producer for quite a few bands. I think you where off base on your criticism of them.
Also if being the lead singer on someones album isn’t a collaboration, then what is? The two of them have repeatedly collaborated on projects over the years.
August 7th, 2023 at 00:56Herr Doktor Bob, you won’t be disappointed seeing Glenn live I’m sure, tell us how it was!
Re Seventh Star, Glenn’s participation in that album did leave a mark, yes, but – and this is a big ‘but’ for me – Glenn was singing on that album “in character”, and that character wasn’t his, but something between Ronnie Dio and Tony Martin/Ray Gillen, I don’t hear any of Glenn’s vocal flamboyance and inspiration on Seventh Star. He sings as if he was told what and how to sing it. It’s Glenn cruising on two instead of four cylinders for me. It’s probably why so many people that are otherwise critical of Glenn’s vocal style like this album: to their ears, Glenn is held in check for once. Me, I prefer the unadulterated Glenn.
Glenn was an unlikely choice for Sabbath or Iommi and it is telling that he was explicitly asked not to play bass on Seventh Star because he was deemed “too funky” (Gordon Copley did on ‘No Stranger On Love’, Dan Spitz unremarkably so on all other tracks). That to me is like asking Macca for a session and then saying: “Mind if you just sing? Your bass playing is a bit too melodic for us.” To me, Glenn’s exuberant bass playing and his singing are a package, you lose on both if you give up on one. Glenn’s rhythmic approach when singing is just as funky as his bass playing. On Seventh Star you hear neither.
August 7th, 2023 at 14:08@ 9 – so what do you think of that Fused album then Uwe, just curious. Cheers.
August 7th, 2023 at 22:46@ 8 – I am well aware of who Trunk is, unfortunately. That is why I don’t pollute my ears with his waffling on hyperbole. Cheers.
August 7th, 2023 at 23:58Tim @5, thanks for your podcast with Glenn, that was a good listen too. Just one trainspotter‘s remark, the Trapeze song (‘Back Street Love”) you played at the beginning, the one where ZZ Top pinched their Sharp Dressed Man from, is one that features Glenn neither on vocals (Mel Galley sings it) nor on bass (that is Pete Wright
https://twitter.com/TheDeadDaisies/status/1443393726303326210
playing though he is funky too) as it stems from HOT WIRE, the first Trapeze album after Glenn had sailed away to DP. It‘s still a very good album, released in 1974 when Glenn was already busy touring Burn.
And is that the new, as yet unreleased Dead Daisies (still with Glenn) track ‘The Healer’ you played towards the end of your podcast? Superb song!
With so many recent Glenn interviews, let‘s take a time machine and go back to 1996:
https://trinkelbonker.wordpress.com/2015/05/12/glenn-hughes-interview-1996/
Almost 30 years ago, this interview makes an interesting comparison to how Glenn sees his career today. Unsurprisingly, not everything he envisaged then became reality and he’s still tagged with the ex-Deep Purple label today – that George Michael career proved elusive. But the contact with EvH (and also with Glenn Tipton of Judas Priest) are mentioned there too. And I guess it’s fair to say that the dichotomy between his hard rock image/pedigree and his funk/soul leanings + yearnings already ruled (and complicated) his career back then.
August 8th, 2023 at 02:48“So what do you think of that Fused album then Uwe, just curious?”
Interesting, well-intentioned, but it never grabbed me. I understand that they like each other and have the same Brummie background, but frankly the best bassist to play with Tony Iommi is Geezer Butler. And Glenn works better with guitarists that are rhythmically more agile than cloven-hoofed Tony, think Mel Galley, Tommy Bolin or Pat Thrall. I prefer Glenn in a more sprightly musical environment than anything Tony Iommi can offer by nature. That is not to say, I can’t enjoy Sabbath’s doom & gloom, but Glenn is an extremely ill fit. There I said it. Francis Rossi, whose lead guitar I love, wouldn’t sound right in Black Sabbath either.
Glenn to me is one of the most gifted Rock/Funk/RnB/Soul-crossover bassists/lead vocalists to ever come from Britain, but with Tony Iommi, an icon in his own field, he is not playing to his strengths and talents. Tony & Glenn together are always marmite to me, an acquired taste, I bring myself to listen to it, but it’s a bit of a chore, frankly. I would have liked Glenn to collaborate with Prince, Lenny Kravitz or Mothers Finest; the Glenn I love is this one:
https://youtu.be/BFc1sHTSlN8
https://youtu.be/APNzr6ZKd5E
https://youtu.be/Svqr_1HEKIY
Which on the holy pages of the Highway Star probably puts me into a minority of one, I know! 😂
August 8th, 2023 at 17:46Well said regarding Hughes & Iommi. Two peas in a dissimilar pod indeed. The fact that they never played live says it all for me. Those DEP sessions even when re released & then the Fused album. No live playing because there isn’t anything there, no magic, no flow & very little melody. It was a mistake on my part presuming that would be a good album, thinking back to Hughes vocal only appearance on The Seventh Star in 1986, which you don’t like & I understand what you are saying regarding that. Interesting also with Fused is another ‘outsider’ in Bob Marlette on keyboards & the producer being involved in the songwriting. Why I wonder, Iommi lost for for ideas at that time. He was rehashing riffs that he already had re done many times before throughout the 80’s etc. Iommi’s solo album before Fused plus the new H&H album were bland to me & also Sabbath’s ’13’ album, which I purchased amongst all the hype of that so called reunion. I haven’t played that since it was released. You can only re do riffs so many time before they come back in a less interesting format. I enjoyed the 2013 Sabbath concert though & of course H & H in 2007..Thanks for your thoughts on Fused. Cheers.
August 8th, 2023 at 22:38With 13, I was thoroughly disappointed that Rick Rubin forced them back into that that raw first two albums formative sound when Sabbath essentially sounded like a Cream record going at 26 rather than 33 rpm (except for the voice)! I really only began to like Sabbath from Master of Reality onward and find that even Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die have their great moments. I like a little rrrefinement with my rrrock, that is why AC/DC does little for me. More than two tracks in sequence from them quickly overstay their welcome.
August 10th, 2023 at 15:36@14 & 15…
Re-BS “13”, it’s a great album…The band had already covered a vast array of styles by this time, & with many differing players as discussed over its career. It made sense to provide the audiences a “typical” BS record to say farewell with. The riffs / tunes aren’t your typical early BS as initially suggested…They may sound similar, but are surprisingly quite complex, & not easy to replay yourself on a guitar…And that’s a hallmark that makes DP a superb band, making something quite complex appear easy. Give it a another listen at good volume levels that it demands would be my recommendation. The new tunes worked really well in the live arena imo.
“Never say Die” is a superb record. I love how the drums sound, & Bill Ward has never sounded better on a studio album imo. The whole album has an upbeat & live sound too it.
I believe that many people need to wake-up, & make their own minds up about the music they choose to listen to, regardless of all the hassles & struggles of management & drug addictions, & poor reviews from the band themselves &/or the masses etc etc.
It’s the quality of the fruit that’s produced that’s important, not the circumstances of the weather that surrounded the growing season.
Peace !
August 11th, 2023 at 00:07@ 16 – I agree with the Never Say Die album, I like that a lot & it is different in many ways, jazzy at times, symphonic a little, not too many dirge riffs etc. In regards to ‘Sabbath’ & Tony Iomm, I followed Iommi or ‘Sabbath’ depending on ones view throughout the decades until the late 90’s reunion. Meaning I purchased each album & enjoyed many songs from each one except most of Forbidden. Listening on into the 2000 era I became tired of the heavy riff dirge sort of thing Iommi seemed to be stuck in. The new Dio H & H album was also affected by that in many songs. ’13’ the album had those two lengthy tracks that were very slow & dreary. Did they listen to Rick Rubin too much or was it that Iommi & Butler were spent creatively, I think more of the latter in that regard although Rubin was obsessed it seems with getting that early primitive Sabbath vibe happening again. Put those old early amps away Rick, Iommi is not impressed. Rubin is a bit of a nostalgia producer in many ways & he gets carried away with it at times.. There are a couple of half decent shorter tracks on that album from my memory. At the concert that one 8 minute dirge slow riff song (I forget the name at present) was labour intensive at best. Talk about knock the life out of the concert. Thankfully the band quickly recovered. Just my two cents worth. Cheers.
August 11th, 2023 at 07:46@17…
The idea of Rubin using real amps to record with, is that they have a different effect on your playing, because they are alive, loud, & respond through your body & guitar differently than plug-in software does, so an enhanced performance is the result…It’s a lot like the difference between using a real drum-kit & a drum-machine…Which do you prefer & sound better, hitting real drum-skins & cymbals or plastic electric pads ?…
I have only the Melbourne Concert DVD of that tour, & I was generally really pleased with it, especially since the band toured more-or-less my home town…I’m pretty-sure I was away-at-sea at the time, so I couldn’t attend, but was surprised to see so much of dreary-winter-Melbourne shown with inner suburban footage at the start, so I felt right-at-home lol !
The concert was great, & all the songs well played imo. Better lighting dynamics would have provided more atmosphere, as the band are generally boring to watch, with Ozzy really the only one creating any on-stage, eye-catching-drama / movement. Tommy Clufetos did a great job behind the kit filling in for Bill Ward, & didn’t miss a beat that I could tell.
There was rumour of another studio recording to follow the tour called “The End”, but sadly, it didn’t come to fruition, only the tour did lol !
Peace !
August 13th, 2023 at 07:04I thought Sabbath played and Ozzy sang well on that final tour, I saw them in Frankfurt. 13 isn’t a musical catastrophe, but it is underwhelming. But I would have preferred to hear more of their Material from Volume 4 onward.
I actually think that Rick Rubin does better work with people like Johnny Cash and Neil Diamond (the two albums he did with Rubin are great) than with full blown rock bands – I’d like to see him paired up with DC for instance.
August 13th, 2023 at 13:42It was a relief that Ozzy sang well in 2013. the choice of songs though would have been down to his vocal, as it was in the 70′, but obviously more so 40 years later. His singing is pretty high on the register on SBS & Sabotage particularly. So no surprises there for me that those albums were left off the set list. We did get an ‘opening’ instrumental riff section of Symptom of the Universe which was grand & disappointingly only a little bit of the opening riff to the song Sabbath Bloody Sabbath. Why couldn’t they have continued that instrumental section to include that devastating heaviest riff in the musical universe section, that was a little disappointing at the time. Also they could have done without that very ordinary song from Technical Ecstasy “Dirty Women”, what a terrible choice that was. Not to mention the video showing street hookers etc throughout the song. Not very impressed some of the lady folks in our section of the crowd & rightly so. It was poor judgement indeed & why we do wonder. Cheers.
August 13th, 2023 at 23:02Talking of live versions of the song Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, Tony Martin era Sabbath, Cross Purposes tour 1994 they played the song. Although Martin is a little hoarse singing it, it is still great to hear the song played in concert. Martin drops the vocal down to suit the heaviest riff in the universe section. It is also on that VHS of the concert, I still have the cd that came with that package. Listening to that song & riff now, devastating it is. Cheers.
August 13th, 2023 at 23:16Regarding Tony Martin’s live vocals, he does leave a lot to desire in that sense. His voice is all but gone on the Cross Purposes tour. I wasn’t surprised when Geezer left the band after that tour. That VHS & cd package 1995 was the first time I heard Martin in a live setting. Whilst enjoining certain aspects of the concert back then, listening to the cd yesterday after 20 years or more it was a little disappointing. Especially Martin trying to sing Symptom of the Universe, his hoarse vocal trying to get that high in the Ozzy register, it doesn’t sound good. There is a good version of Wizard on that set, harmonica & all, probably played a little too quick but still good. Did Tony Martin blow his voice on the Headless Cross tour, most probably as the Tyr album I noticed his voice was little more restrained, but in a good way. Ok on studio albums Martin, except Forbidden (why did Iommi do that album & tour?) Tony Martin is struggling in a live setting it appears. Cheers.
August 14th, 2023 at 22:57I saw Tony Martin only once, some Sabbath tour when Cozy and Neil were the rhythm section. He sang well enough, but … I’m not saying he’s charisma-less, but he is nobody to front Sabbath (nor could Glenn btw).
Ozzy, for all his limitations, is an underrated singer in his own little niche. He’s immediately recognizable and has a knack for putting his minimalist, almost childlike wailing melodies over the music. Sabbath with him was always catchy – without his vocals they would have been just another Stoner Rock outfit with especially good riffs.
Ozzy is as limited, yet idiosyncratic as Alice Cooper (another guy who can’t really sing, yet you always recognize him).
August 15th, 2023 at 12:07@23…Alice Cooper imo “can” sing, it’s just that he does what he does because he turns into another persona called Alice, who’s designed to invite you along his strange journeys with him, by 1/2 singing & at times 1/2 speaking melodically. His “average” takes encourage you to sing along & do better. They are all capable musicians with solid training & arranging skills, as the Zappa-label releases clearly show ( Bizzare & Straight Records )…The 1977 Live show is a great display of an early live performance if you can find it.
I completely agree about Ozzy, though he does border on insane at time lol !
Peace !
August 15th, 2023 at 21:51I watched the first half of the Dio documentary last night, except for loudmouth Lita Ford I enjoyed it. I cannot believe Dio wasn’t paid any Rainbow song royalties until after his death. According to his ex wife that is & apparently ‘Rainbow’ were paying off their house at the time Dio was in the band. When thinking of joining Sabbath Dio allegedly told his missus, ‘I don’t know if I like this sort of music’, she replied, ‘we only have $800.00 left in the bank, you DO like this music’. Ha ha ha. Have to laugh & it makes me wonder & I hope Iommi & company paid him properly. But then again we hear stories of the Vivian Campbell money issues later on. Is it something in the water that flows under Dio’s bridge. Or did he pick up some bad habits from his Rainbow days. It makes us wonder indeed. Regarding Tony Martin & his lack of stage presence, yes he looks uncomfortable & it looks like he doesn’t know what to do at times. A hard job coming in after so many big name lead vocalists, at least he had a go at it, however I always wondered why Iommi went back to Martin after the Dio Dehumanizer album & tour. Geezer stayed on & regretted it. When I watched that VHS concert for the first time I was pondering that move that Iommi made. Yes indeed Ozzy is unique in his vocal delivery & very melodic, a one off indeed. It was nice to witness in 2013 those early Sabbath songs live with Ozzy on vocals as I heard them in 1980 with Dio singing them. Same with H & H in 2007, only Dio era Sabbath songs & it was great. Iconic lead vocalists are impossible to replace when singing their own or their known songs. Cheers.
August 15th, 2023 at 22:42@25…Poor management, & even poorer contracts may have been the cause of RJD’s financial woes…That said, he did make the “big time”, & so perhaps he always knew that his time would come financially, as he had top-tier exposure whilst performing with Rainbow etc etc.
It’s possible that since it was initially called RB’s-Rainbow, that he was paid as a session musician for album contributions, & a wage for touring duties.
DP may have been big & were generating $$$, but it wasn’t until the success’s of MiJ & SOTW through 1972, that the band members were out of debt, & that was through a tax concession generated by recording outside of the UK…
This indicates that possibly RB was funding a lot of this project himself, & was likely paid as 1/5 th member of DP, perhaps some writing credit royalties, and lots of that money would have been going out in legal fees to lawyers for divorces & settlements…What the band had going was momentum started from DP & RB’s popularity, plus contacts, & knowledge of where-to-go, & who-to-see about booking the where-to-play venues.The potential was there for sure, all that was needed was time, the work effort, & hopefully some $$$ rolling-in again.
There may be countless millions of $$$ generated by a popular band via a number of separate, yet inter-grated industries, but not much actually flows down to each performer after “expenses” lol !
Peace !
August 16th, 2023 at 11:23Before the eternal wrath of the Coop hits me, Gregster, I hasten to add that I love pretty much everything about him save for the fact that he (like your fellow countryman-turned-Yank Rick Springfield or Jack Blades of the wonderful Night Ranger) is a card-carrying Republican (albeit a sane one, those should be a protected species by now). I have his works complete (including the 1977 Live one, though he hates that because it caught him knackered at the end of a long tour and with severe addiction issues, its release was a contractual obligation) and am especially a fan of the original Alice Cooper Group, Dennis Dunaway is an unsung bass hero, just listen to his inventive and melodic way of underpinning the School’s Out riff. I really dig Alice’s voice, especially on ballads, it has a Lennon’esque character to it nasal as it is (that extremely thin nose!).
https://youtu.be/EVKv_ez5Ie8
I once saw Alice opening for DC’s Whitesnake. It was a stark lesson how someone who was never the greatest singer in the first place (he makes no bones about it himself) can age gracefully with his voice while someone who was once a great singer (DC) cannot.
August 16th, 2023 at 13:08Intra-band finances were murky with all three major post-DP-split bands, mainly Rainbow, Whitesnake and Gillan. That had to do with the band leaders of all three being the only ones to have a recording and publishing contracts with the respective labels of these bands (as well as management contracts with the management of course). And, true, all three heavily invested money they had earned with DP into these ventures – with zero to little return (until DC hit big in the US, but he almost went broke before). But of course they saw those bands as “their” ventures, they felt (rightfully) entitled, and none of the joining/hired members were invested like they were nor could look back on having been in anything even just nearly as successful as DP. If you came from Elf, Wild Turkey/Babe Ruth or ZZebra, you weren’t a wealthy rock star, nuff said. It was a recipe destined for financial strife in the long term and money plus its allocation became an issue in all three (Jon Lord threw a fit when he found out that DC was paying more to Cozy than to him). Major decisions such as Ritchie pushing for a reunion of DP, Ian joining Sabbath or DC laying off the line-up of his most successful studio recording before they had even played a single note of it live were all money-driven.
https://youtu.be/PIAXG_QcQNU
To be fair, no-name musicians hired by bigger bands often find themselves thrown into this world of lavish abundance: better accommodation, better studios and equipment, larger halls, media interest + you don’t really need any money of your own if you are touring professionally with a larger act – everything is taken care of, you just have to be on the tour bus or at the airport S we’ll as on stage on time. But there is no free lunch and someone has to pay for all this – and is waiting for a return on his investment. And a touring operation is like a small army – it eats away resources and assets 24/7.
August 16th, 2023 at 14:12I understand the enormous financial output to record & especially touring etc, but song royalties? Not until after his departure from this earth? Who knows what contract Dio initially signed & yes indeed, maybe the house being paid off was some sort of financial ‘recognition’ at the time. After Dio passing & it does makes me wonder wether someone was feeling guilty or no doubt being pushed to cough up. Regarding the DP reunion of 1984 I would have thought Ian Gillan would have been the most ‘desperate’ for financial input, all things considering at that time. Unfortunately money does talk, good or bad. The most important question is did they ‘sell their souls for rock ‘n roll’? It appears so, all of them, everywhere. Hell Hath No Fury eh? Cheers.
August 16th, 2023 at 22:00One word: advances. By the record company or the management against future royalties. Bands are often heavily in debt and royalties are set off.
As Gregster wrote, Dio was probably on a retainer during Rainbow tours and received lump sums for recording – with royalty percentages in a distant future (and sales + airplay allowing). Also, Rainbow might have reached the Gates of Babylon, but I doubt whether they were a Golden Calf as regards royalties flow. Even in Europe, Dio era Rainbow had almost zero radio airplay and never even a minor hit single. Their music wasn’t played in rock discos either. Let’s not even talk about the US. Where should those royalties come from? Ritchie only realized belatedly how much a freak mega hit song such as SOTW had added to his personal wealth – Rainbow never had something similar, Russ Ballard hit writing capabilities or not.
The royalties flow situation probably improved in the following decades due to debts being settled and all these compilations being put out where the more successful AOR tracks of later Rainbow line-ups pulled the likewise contained Dio songs out of the sword & sorcery quagmire!
Herr MacGregor, Ian Gillan was in financial difficulties when Gillan (the band) folded, but did very well with Sabbath. They paid him handsomely for the year he was with them. The album was no 4 in the UK charts, unheard of for a Sabbath album in a very long time.
I believe all five members had financial AND musical ego reasons to reunite Mk II in 1984:
– Ritchie and Roger by then knew that Rainbow would not become an AOR beast like Journey, Styx, REO Speedwagon or Foreigner, that ship had sailed.
– Big Ian had enjoyed his tenure with Sabbath, yes, and was paid well, but I don’t think he ever saw it as a long term option once the alcohol had worn off after joining them in drunken stupor! Too much baggage.
– Jon’s position in Whitesnake had become increasingly fragile – he had not been fired, true, but pretty much everybody else in the band he knew had been. John Sykes’ derision about Hammond organ sounds cannot have escaped him and unlike John and Cozy, his presence wasn’t really required for the next great steps DC wanted WS to take. Jon certainly wouldn’t have retreated behind a stage curtain to play synth layers as accompaniment to Herr Sykes’ inflated ego solos!
– And Little Ian was – let’s face it – punching severely beneath his weight as a mere sideman for volatile and self-doubting Gary Moore. He (and his great drumming) deserved better than the musical straitjacket Gary offered him.
August 17th, 2023 at 04:03That title song Scarabus from the third IGB album has the same verses that were used later on with Disturbing the Priest from Born Again. Even the ‘sorcery’ lyrics are similar. Cheers.
August 17th, 2023 at 06:31@29 said…
“The most important question is, did they ‘sell their souls for rock ‘n roll’ ?… It appears so, all of them, everywhere… Hell Hath No Fury eh” ?…
Possibly, but remember how difficult it can be to keep-up-top-notch-performances, as regards to keeping up the tour schedules, plus coming up with new material for the next record-album, whilst trying to keep a family-life together…So learning the “business” comes with time honoured experience, & generally lots of hardship through being ripped-off by everyone…
Allow Black sabbath to hint at how management can screw you…Check this out yo ! (You’ll learn how owning your own home is not quite owning your own home, whereby management owns it, & lets you live there etc etc etc)…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH8c4TKrIOo
Peace !
August 17th, 2023 at 09:11Just & venerable Gregster, that Sabbath Sabotage docu is great, danke schön! Very illuminating in all its darkness.
It’s my no 2 favorite Ozzy era album after Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, but I also like the two albums that followed it (Technical Ecstasy is worth having for the beautiful It’s Alright sung by Bill Ward alone!).
Ironically, I never thought the Sabotage cover so bad, for me it had something nicely Clockwork Orange’y intimidating to it (WHO ARE THESE GUYS?) and Ozzy’s gown didn’t look gay, but Aleister Crowley’sh to me (but then good ole Aleister wasn’t too choosy with which gender he would have sex at any given time, so what do I know?!)
August 17th, 2023 at 20:42More like the Sabs allowed their managers to screw them. Sad & they know it. Signing something that you know frig all about, well it still happens to this day in all walks of life unfortunately. Believing the bullshit hype from a mr smoothy. Pink Floyd’s Have a Cigar says it all. Cheers.
August 17th, 2023 at 22:27I have been listening to the Sabotage tour & songs recently, well some of them. Man are they rough played live & as expected Ozzy struggled hitting those notes he hit in the studio on some of those songs. Lead vocalists were up against it big time in more ways than one. The band sound like they could have been wasted in all aspects. Trashy would be good word. Megalomania & Symptom of the Universe plus Hole in the Sky, all rough & Iommi’s lead playing is all over the place at times. Killing Yourself to Live was played & another from the SBS album, Looking for Today possibly along with Spiral Architect & that song sounds ok. They did that in the late 90’s reunion. Why they didn’t play that in 2013 was rather disappointing. It sounds like an easier song for Osbourne to sing. Even that version of Sabbath Bloody Sabbath from the ’97 reunion could have been played in 2013. Leave out the higher vocal bits in that heavy section & play them as a instrumental. Mind you easier said than done & typing away here being so selective with certain expectations, enough said there. Cheers.
August 17th, 2023 at 23:24@33…All the BS discography is pretty good imo, regardless of line-up, though I must admit that “Wheels of Confusion” from “Vol.4”, for myself is their crowning moment as far as singling out one tune goes…I also think that the band did themselves no favours by shunning “Technical Ecstacy”, as yes, it’s a great album too, with the band stretching-out further, hinting at a little-bit more radio-friendly material perhaps…They could have taken great advantage of those times too, with DP now extinct, & LZ away on sabbatical, but I guess their own distractions made things difficult, though I thought “Never Say Die” as an awesome decade closing recording…
@34…You’re probably right there, but they were approached a number of times by many people wanting to manage them, & chose Mr.Meehan jr simply because he told them what they wanted to hear, & so offered some light through the fog. And the people wanting to sign them were all well-known industry managers, so there must have been a false comfort-zone created by those-in-the-know. Jimmy Hendrix recommended seeing a lawyer before signing anything, but lawyers are parasites too…Who knows ??? Perhaps Robert Stigwood was as dodgy as Robert Trimbole too lol !
I have some solid though flawed Live BS in official release & bootleg form if you’re interested !
Peace !
August 18th, 2023 at 05:55Yes certain managers are like standover men, they seem to flourish when vulnerable & naive people are there for the picking. Hendrix recommending a lawyer? If anyone has been ripped off it was Hendrix, so yes I could imagine him saying that. His father was paid $4oo grand in 1971 wasn’t he for the entire Hendrix catalogue. A lot of money for a poor man who didn’t know anything about what his son had been involved in. Thankfully the Hendrix estate retrieved all that in the 1990’s. Regarding managers of rock bands & Uriah Heep & Lee Kerslake talked about this in recent years. Allegedly manager & producer Gerry Bron was receiving 50% from what I remember of that interview. Although if Bron was paying for everything & being an astute music manager, he was on the ball with everything. How much did the musicians end up with, 10% each possibly & did they have to contribute to other costs. Adding to the insult as far as Lee & other band members concerned was that Ken Hensley allegedly hit them up for royalty payments for his songs in the mid 70’s. It can pay to be a songwriter as such. And what about being a session or ex member on a salary. Richard Wright was just that in Pink Floyd 1979. The Wall concerts. He was the only ‘band member’ to make any money as he had been sacked by Water’s & reinstated as a hired musician on a salary. Floyd were in debt due to a big business deal that went belly up & all their costs (the 3 existing band members) were gone on repaying debts etc. It can work out in different ways for some if lucky enough. I do have a liking for Wheels of Confusion & the Sabbath Volume 4 album, the first I heard as a youngster all those decades ago. Those 3 albums are the best, the trilogy 1972 to 1975. Cheers.
August 18th, 2023 at 06:37